Guantanomo Bay to become death camp!

by Abaddon 85 Replies latest social current

• 

  Yerusalyim

  This is Article 4 of the Geneva Convention.

  None of it's sub Paragraphs apply to Al Qaeda

  ARTICLE 4

  A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

  (1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

  (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

  (3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

  (4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

  (5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

  (6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

  B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

  (1) Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.
• 

  Realist

  thichi,

  yes, one or the other or both !
• 

  Abaddon

  Yeru;

  The Geneva Convention very specifically defines Prisoners of War. The battle field detainees don't meet that definition, not by a long shot.

  That is obviously a matter of opinion. Functionly the Talban fall under 1/ and or 2/. By your interpretation, any American soldiers captured in the American War of Independence would not have been POWs. Any USA covert operative captured in a war zone would also not be a POW. Many feel the spirit of the law is being ignored.

  The detainees in Guantanemo are treated far better than US soldiers taken prisoner anywhere in the world.

  So, your argument is that even though almost every other country has expressed concerns, and many people are of the opinion that the USA is using, in an impeccably contemptuous fashion, a loop hole in both their own laws and International laws, it's okay because US soldiers somewhere have it worse. Two wrongs don't make a right Yeru, they cover that in grade school.

  As to US battlefield detainees, we have some, like John Walker Lynd. He should be down there in Guantanemo. Bleeding heart liberals who want me to feel sorry for the idiots in Guantanemo are barking up the wrong tree.

  Wonderful to see you hold the Constitution of a country you obviously love in such low regard. And what will happen when someone wants to violte your Constitutional rights?

  I'm not saying any tribunals have started, I'm saying WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

  The fact we don't know what has happened legally, as far as the joke of due process could be without the assurance of an open court, is one of the reasons many people are concerned. This is not right. If the right thing is being done, let it be seen to be done. what is there to hide?

  These nuts can be held until the end of hostilities without any trial. Since we're still fighting in Afghanistan, and the war on Terror will last a generation, these guys aren't going anywhere soon. Nor are they being treated bad, again WHAT is the specific complaint about their treatment?

  Most people feel they are being denied proper due process, that their human rights are being violated, and that there is not enough openess in the process. Specific enough?

  Having established that terrorism is a bad thing Yeru, and that those party to it must be detained without consideration of their rights, I hope you will be writing to your Senator to encourage the detention of all American's involved in planning, carrying out, or financing terrorist activity or activity by illeagal combatants.

  Thi Chi;

  Its amazing to read some of these posts. Here we got blacked masked people training day and night to obtain their evil goals: Kill our women and children, and to bring down our great Nation. These rat bastards have shown the cowardly ways they will use to attack us.

  The blame "US first" crowed and the "US is guilty first" crowed will not prevail. Unlike many Nations and peoples that are only appeasers to evil, the US will take whatever steps that are necessary to counter act this virus of scoundrels.

  Here we see the nationalist fevour that makes many people worry an awful lot about the USA. I find it comforting that in the past six months, I've met about eight Americans through business. They were nice people, and every single one was horrified about the US's conduct.

  Let us hope it is they who will prevail, or America will continue to alienate the world and isolate itself.

  I will tell you this, these terrorists will get a better chance at life in camp x-ray than what they granted those at 9/11 and other recent attacks........

  So, justice and human rights be damned. Wonderful, I have a copy of the Bill of Rights you can burn next.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Abadon,

  The Geneva Convention didn't exist during the Revolutionary war, so it didn't exist. Actually though, most of the Officers and Enlisted of the Regular Army wore uniforms. Covert Operatives generally go into the countries they're operating in with a uniform. Seldom are they out of uniform, you're watching too many movies. The Taliban and Al Qaeda neither one meet the qualifications for this reason.

  (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

  they do qualify, perhaps, as war criminals.

  When other countries start following the Geneva Convention it would mean more when they protested the treatment of the Al Qaeda nuts.

  WHAT SPECIFIC RIGHTS are being violated. These guys are being treated with due process as covered by international law. When the conflict is over, we can talk about their release.

  The fact we don't know what has happened legally, as far as the joke of due process could be without the assurance of an open court, is one of the reasons many people are concerned. This is not right. If the right thing is being done, let it be seen to be done. what is there to hide?

  What makes you think you have a right to know this. "Open Court" is not a right in war. There are some pretty serious security issues surrounding this, but that seems to be unimportant to those of you whining about this issue.

  Here we see the nationalist fevour that makes many people worry an awful lot about the USA. I find it comforting that in the past six months, I've met about eight Americans through business. They were nice people, and every single one was horrified about the US's conduct.

  Let us hope it is they who will prevail, or America will continue to alienate the world and isolate itself.

  The overwhelming vast majority of Americans think we're doing this right. The US isn't isolating itself from the world, just from YOUR point of view (Which is good).
• 

  Simon

  ThiChi

  Re: the "ask the relatives of victims of Sept 11"

  Many, many of the relatives of victims have expressed their objection to some of the things, including the war in Iraq, being done in the name of their relatives as it has nothing whatsoever to do with justice for those killed.

  Like Eman said, you can't live off that forever and you'll find if you overdo it as I think America has that any goodwill and sympathy will evaporate.
• 

  teejay

  It should be remembered that Bush, as governor of Texas, demonstrated a horrid disregard for human life. At the same time that Governor Ryan of Illinois declared a moratorium on that state's executions after 13 inmates were found innocent, Governor Bush went full steam ahead – setting a record for the number of executions by a single state. When asked whether he might reconsider his state's policy of executing death row inmates, Bush callously said: "I'm confident that every person that has been put to death in Texas under my watch has been guilty of the crime charged, and has had full access to the courts."

  It's in perfect harmony with Mr. Bush's shallow thinking that every one of those now in custody at Guantanamo are guilty as charged.
• 

  Uzzah

  By way of interpretation of the Geneva Conventions, Yeru is correct in that these terrorists or 'detainees' do not fall under any category made in the Conventions. But also keep in mind the conventions were drafted before terrorism became the preferred method of protest by the more extreme elements of humanity.

  Putting aside the Geneva Convention concern, the US military are making a huge error in PR by not allowing the Red Cross access to these detainees. By taking that stance they fuel the conspiracy theories.

  The International Red Cross (Red Cresent) Organization is an Independent Neutral Organization focussed on ensuring dignity and respect to all humans, combatants of all sides. These detainees fall under the mandate of the International Red Cross. The International media condemned Iraq for not allowing the Red Cross to have access to some of the coalition forces that were captured.

  I supported the need to oust Saddam. I disagreed with the way the US approached the conflict (bypassing the UN), but support the military guys and gals who went over there to do the dirty work. I regret the loss of life of all parties, especially the innocents killed.

  That said, I cannot understand why the US military would refuse access to the Red Cross. Any ideas on that one Yeru?
• 

  No Apologies

  Yeru,

  How in the world can you say their rights are not being violated? They are being held as prisoners against their will by a foreign govt. As far as anyone knows, they have not been charged with a crime, they are not allowed visits by a third party. Article 6 you quoted above seems to apply to them perfectly well. They were living in Afghanistan, when they were attacked and captured by U.S. forces.
• 

  ThiChi

  Simon:

  """Many, many of the relatives of victims have expressed their objection to some of the things, including the war in Iraq, being done in the name of their relatives as it has nothing whatsoever to do with justice for those killed. ""

  True, some have stated this. Others agree that geo-politically, Iraq was a good move for the US. The jury will be out for sometime to come on the answer. We shall see......

  ""Like Eman said, you can't live off that forever and you'll find if you overdo it as I think America has that any goodwill and sympathy will evaporate.""

  I understand the reasoning here, However, I do not feel we have reached this threshold yet....

  Simon, how should the US go about fighting, identifying, extracting information from these weasels? What to do?
• 

  Englishman

  The United States is surely one of the most confusing countries on earth. On the one hand, it's progressive, pro-active, hospitable and generous. On the other hand, it's a bit like the Wild West with it's hangings, rustlers and isolationism.

  Yet everyone I have met from the US is extraordinarily pleasant. So just who are these cads who dictate US policy?

  Beats me. Maybe George the Third should have dug his heels in and kept it a Brit colony....

  Englishman. Ducking..