Need advice

by Drwho 89 Replies latest social relationships

  • Drwho

    Hi All

    I'm a middle aged man. I dated a JW lady for 3 months ., We never had sex, just made out , half naked , well everything except underwear .

    She has been a JW for 40 years ., Was married to a jW but he committed Adultery 13 years ago so they divorced

    Her kids 20 , 24 years old are of course JWs

    To cut a long story short . I went to a couple of meetings and after 1 bible study , I knew that this was anything short of a joke . Im not deeply religious but am Catholic , I belive in the Catholic doctrines and live a life of what I consider high morals , but I am not a regular church goer .

    Anyway , after I told her there is no way I could convert , she told me we could no longer be together and ended the relationship , 1 hour after I told her I could nt convert, She knew I was never intending to convert, I just wanted to find out her beliefs .She was happy about that and always told me its ok that I would nt convert .

    Now, I am the first real contact she has had with a " worldly" and I really think she is doubting her loyalty to the Watchtower . She saw real love in me , unconditional . Ive shown her some BBC and UK.GOV reports about the abuse and cover up of the rapists by the Watchtower , over 1000 in Australia alone and many more genuine News reports , and some point she half believed but now repeats and repeats that they are all lies .

    Ive shown her reports form Psychologists and their views on Shunning , again its all lies .

    Ive asked her if she would refuse her children a blood transfusion if they were about to die , she just said that they would be happy after the resurrection , I even showed her online a copy from the " Awake of 22 May , 1994 " , She dismissed this as a fake and said that was disgusting to let 11 children from the ages of 11 - 17 die, then she got home and dug out HER own original copy and replied " they did well " ( meaning the kids)

    Sometimes , I really feel as if Im getting through to her , then she blocks , saying its all lies , and the change in doctrines happened because " they saw the light " , its exactly as I was told she would react

    So , my question to anyone here is , What or how could I help her ?, what would plant a seed in her mind ? Ive told her that her family would be so so much more happy to know they could love their family and friends unconditionally and she doesnt answer that for a few seconds , then says She will never change , she cant .

    The fact she still talks to me and meets me , shows me that she has nt made up her mind ?

    Any help would be gratefully appreciated

  • KateWild

    Hi Drwho and welcome.

    The thing is she is stuck in a harmful cult and has a cult persona and an authentic persona. Talking doctrine with her will bring out her cult persona and make her more resilient, doing fun things, hobbies and interests, and talking about no religious things will bring out her authentic persona.

    The book Combating cult mind control by Steve Hassan, explains this further and helps people free their loved ones from cults.

    Kate xx

  • Landy

    Well, it all boils down to one question really?

    Is she fit?


  • OneEyedJoe

    There's not a ton you can do when someone wants to stay in the cult. You can't force someone to leave (unless you're their legal guardian) and in some cases they're just not going to leave. You've made a good effort at waking her up, and maybe one day a seed you planted will grow. That said, it's not your responsibility to get her out of the cult. My best advice to you would be to just tell her that if she ever wants to talk or needs support from someone that won't shun her for changing her mind, you'll be there. Then honor her wishes to end the relationship and move on with your life.

    It's happened too many times - people think they can help and they keep hanging on trying to save someone and the only result is more heartache for the person trying to help. Move on and build relationships with people that don't use sex/love as bait to get you to join a destructive cult. She's treated you horribly (admittedly while under undue influence of a cult, but just the same) and you've got to have enough respect for yourself to see it for what it is, know you deserve better, and go out and get what you deserve.

    I wish you the absolute best of luck in what ever path you take.

  • Drwho

    Hi Kate

    Great thanks for the advice

    Ive been too pushy the last days , calling the WT everything form Evil to Fat basta**s , i guess Im so sad and frustrated

    Ill take it easy now and keep my gob shut )

    Simon xx

  • Drwho

    Thanks JOE

    Yes its weird but deep down I know you are right . Maybe you have just woke me up from something thats is impossible , its good to hear that , I feel a sense of duty to get her and her kids out

    I did them things, I told her I have to walk but Im not shunning her , she can always contact me etc etc but I just keep going back for more in a desperate attempt .

    Your words make sense



  • OneEyedJoe

    Yeah it's definitely a difficult decision to make. On the one hand, no one deserves to be subjected to the torture of living in a cult, least of all children that are raised in it. On the other hand, I know personally of the heartache and abuse that you have to be prepared to subject yourself to in order to try and wake someone up from this cult. Some are able to wake up their wives, others (like me) fail miserably. I've read many accounts and tried to help some who were in a similar situation to yours, and it often ends badly. I'm sure the failures are disproportionately represented in the posts here due to the fact that in the case of success people don't have as much to talk about, but even so the cost can be very high.

    Take solace in the fact that, according to a Pew survey on religion, fully 2/3rds of born-in JWs eventually leave the cult. Her children, being raised by a single mother from the sound of it, stand an especially good chance of making it out because she will be unable to put the same level of pressure on them as a pair of JW parents can do. They've also seen first hand that JW life isn't all perfect families and happy marriages as the JWs like to claim.

    You've done her a great kindness already, and I suspect that even if you move on you'll be willing to provide her with the start of a support system out of the cult if she ever does decide to leave. That's a huge huge thing that you've already done. In my book you can move on not only with a clean conscience but knowing that you've done more than most would, and you've respected yourself in the process.

  • Gayle

    Sad, you sound like a such good guy. I hope you can move on. Unless, you don't mind dealing with a type of "dual personality." Sad, for her too, as single JW females definitely out-number single JW males, especially, after about 30 years old. Then, the older single JW males often pick the much younger females there.

  • Drwho

    Thanks again Joe

    You know what ? I feel 200% better since your kind words . And it gives me comfort to know that her kids have a greater chance of leaving, Ive not met the kids obviously as I was the BIG secret being a " wordly " ( hate that word and when the guy came for the bible study he kept saing " wordly " and it bothered me lol )

    You ve given me faith in mankind : ) Was starting to doubt after my experience with her .

    Thanks again


  • oppostate


    Best thing I could think of that you could do to help her wake up from the cult is to call her congregation, ask to speak to a couple of elders on the phone, they like to talk in pairs anyway.

    Then share with them that she was putting pressure on you about the religion and you like her a lot, you've made out with heavy petting and fondling to the point of passion, ehem, but even though you like her a lot, you are not happy about the religious pressure and you want to get their understanding on whether she should be ok with just the relationship being sexually and emotionally involved, without bringing religion into it.

    The fact that the elders know about her sexually charged encounters with you will start a process whereby she'll have to face up to the ugly side of the religion. It's like pulling back the curtain and seeing who the real Wizzard of Oz actually is.

    Give her the jolt she needs. She is either going to reject you for not being a Witness or reject the Witnesses for forcing her to go against her sensual desires. Yeah, it may get ugly and she'll blame you for getting her in hot water with the elders, but if she's really that loyal to the Witnesses that's exactly the counsel she'd give to anyone else in her position.

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