Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final
zeb: There are apx 175,000 jw in Russia. The wt has more than enough money to repatriate them to safety and set them up with a house and basics but the wt wont as they want more martyrs. The Russian govt could do worse than tell wt to take these people and feed house and look after them.
Just think how large the fund could have been, if the JWs had pooled their money to actually help Russian JWs through sponsorship and relocation. Instead of buying stationery and postage. For media attention.
I have read of several Russian JWs already leaving and re-locating. To sunny places (California for one). But those are only the JWs with money and/or influence. I guess they will pray from a safe distance for their "brothers and sisters still suffering" back home in Russia.
I have to laugh when some post their displeasure in the ban. Why, because the dubs are happy they got banned.
The local dubs here are happier than pigs in you know what. Sure. Only the stupid dubs are displeased about the Russians banning the dubs. The 'smart' ones know it's a sign of the end. The COBE's wife here said "bring it on" ...."we know that's gotta happen"
Sure, people are concerned about JWs suffering abuse and rights to other religions being threatened but I am not surprised that this happened.
Things are not the greatest in Russia and who has tolerance for any crackpot religion that causes instability and adds to the problems a country already has.
I have no use for religions in general and all the problems they cause. A religion should have to be an asset to the community or be taxed.
You can talk endlessly about human rights and freedom of religion but when a country going through hard times has a dictator this all goes out the window!
LongHairGal: You can talk endlessly about human rights and freedom of religion but when a country going through hard times has a dictator this all goes out the window!
Russia also has a history of terrorism and has had problems with the control of terrorism for longer than America has. Their history plays into this situation as well.
For example, wars in Chechnya and terrorist infiltration into Russia for funding of military disturbances and such. In close neighboring countries. Recently. Areas of Russia, like Chechnya, can be pretty tense and religious/political boundaries might get blurry. And militant.
Russia has established religious factions and traditions that go back centuries - long before North America was even settled/colonized. And then a period of no religion during the Soviet era. Much political turmoil and religious disruption in the past 100 years. From a monarchy to a wee little hiccup of socialism, into hard core communism, sliding out on a socialist wing...capitalism...and now the revolution comes full swing...back to a 'monarch' type system.
Maybe the Russian officials saw the JWS religion like a strong armed rigid dictatorship where people get knocked off if they oppose the religion.
I guess any religion that promotes the deaths of its own adherents is going to bring attention toward itself.
The Russians are well aware of brutally strict and harmful dictatorships it was called communism.
Yes, it's true Russia's traditions go back centuries and they have seen a lot of hardship and bloodshed in the 20th century alone.
Thanks for the bit of a history lesson. I'm sure a lot of JWs who read here don't have much knowledge of world history and have a simplistic view of the world thanks to JW induced ignorance. They think silly and childish letter writing campaigns are supposed to make people in that country be impressed.
I'm sure the only thing the Russians were impressed with was the magnitude of stupidity and wasted time and resources. Maybe the tons of letters will be put to good use heating people's fireplaces over there.
The testimony of ex JWs did not help their cause. The following was reported
Also in the course of the trial the court heard testimony of several former members of the organization, who declared that "total control" was established over devotees.
A witness from St. Petersburg, Natalia Koretskaia, who was a member of the organization from 1995 to 209, described how its members "live in complete total control of devotees by the Administrative Center."
Jehovah's Witnesses formally follow a canonical observance of rules, but in reality the issue is the total control of the personal life of a person, his intimate life, education, and job," the witness said.
Another former member of the organization, Pavel Zverev, declared that because of the leadership of the Jehovah's Witnesses he was left without higher education.
"In the organization it is considered that getting higher education is not useful for the interests of the organization. As a result of this conviction, I remained without education and I have suffered from this in my career," Zverev said.
The concentrated efforts of letter writing from JWs around the World in a short period of time only stregthens the validity of the ex JWs claims.
LongHairGal: I'm sure the only thing the Russians were impressed with was the magnitude of stupidity and wasted time and resources. Maybe the tons of letters will be put to good use heating people's fireplaces over there.
Lol! You have no idea how true that is!
I have a Russian friend with whom I have discussed the happenings and circumstances of this 'ban'. When I told him about the letter writing, he laughed and laughed. He thought it was so silly. He drew a picture of a snail "this is Russian post system". It takes six months and more for a parcel to reach his father back in Russia.
As posted in here earlier too, banning religious organizations don't work. Its true that the WT as an organization will be dismantled and no legal structure will exist from now.
However, in religious groups, its the people who make the organization, not the other way round. WT is not a strict corporate entity with employees moving out to other companies if their organization collapses.
WT is an ideology more than just a legal entity. You legalize them, they flourish. You ban them, they go underground. Banning them does not assure that their adherents would abandon their beliefs and adopt others.
For a greater part of their life, my parents were active JW's in a banned country. Expats though. No branch office, no kingdom halls, no singing, no contributions, no literature (except for those brought in by expats who got them from their home countries). No legal entity existed. Occasionally a circuit overseer would fly in and have a 1 day visit with the publishers and flew back the same evening. However, core beliefs remained the same. Disfellowshippings were announced, Elders flew in to neighboring countries to attend schools. Expats went to their home countries for their medical treatment and locals prepared legal affidavits that they personally wish not to take blood during treatments. Baptisms were conducted secretly at homes or crowded swimming pools. Expats reported their preaching activity to their home country, etc.
Religious groups can be banned, but ideologies cannot. People die as martyrs for their beliefs rather than just compromise with the ruling state. Countless ISIS soldiers died for their insane ideology, whereas scores of Christians were massacred by ISIS in genocide for being Christians. Patriotism and Religious fundamentalism has given rise to unimaginable list of such martyrs, who are willing to bear persecution and die for their beliefs, no matter how nonsense we find it to be.