by OrphanCrow 184 Replies latest jw friends
The biggest single problem vis-à-vis Jehovah's Witnesses and transfusion medicine is not the idea in and of itself.
The problem is the sanctions for non-compliance, which is a fairly clear violation of human rights..
The JW parent organization has had ample warning on this issue spanning many years. Instead of changing their internal policy, they thought it would be "cute" to lie to the ECHR.
Now its come home to roost.
maaaaaaaybe you're being, a wee bit, um, SUPER IGNORANT AND BIGOTED?
Really so all those innocent people that got killed by Muslim Extremists were also ignorant and bigoted ?
Come on its 2017 for fucks sake.
My government banning my ideas would not have helped
Really ? What if your government perceived the danger to the population of which its responsible to and banned those religoius ideologies, therefore stopping you ever embracing or obtaining those ideas to self harm.
Really so all those innocent people that got killed by Muslim Extremists were also ignorant and bigoted ?
Come on its 2017 for fucks sake.
Yep, it *is* 2017. And my Muslim best friend has spent the past 8 or 9 years in the United States Army, putting her body on the line to protect the freedoms of the same ignorant bigots who call her a terrorist and would deport and ban her and her family, if they could.
So...yeah, I'm definitely sticking with the whole "gross, ignorant bigotry" thing. Banning religions is thoughtcrime and counterproductive, maintains this atheist. Very strange that ex-JWs left a religion with some authoritarian tendencies, only to cheer on the Russian government for their far greater authoritarianism. Hitler banned the JWs too; are we forgetting how that turned out? The Kremlin has a well-documented history of torturing, imprisoning, and murdering political dissidents. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is far too simplistic an outlook.
Have a lovely day!
Well I'm also an atheist, perhaps you need a bomb go off around you seeing body parts flying everywhere and then maybe you might change that position that all and any religious practice should be allowed without interference or any forwarding governmental scrutiny.
For the record I'm apposed to a government banning a religion based wholly upon that is a religious belief or ideology, Christianity or otherwise.
maybe you might change that position that all and any religious practice should be allowed without interference or any forwarding governmental scrutiny.
Since that is *not* my position, which I very clearly outlined in my first posting, I feel completely comfortable standing by my statements in full and have nothing to re-evaluate or add. (Nice straw man attempt, though! Hats off to you! It's cool though, my dirty, scary, boogeyman Muslim "terrorist" friend will still go into that bomb-filled war zone on behalf of your rights. She's gotten used to this kind of rhetoric.)
Yep, it *is* 2017. And my Muslim best friend has spent the past 8 or 9 years in the United States Army
Well yes that's quite right that most Muslims are peaceful law abiding moderates but there are those within this religion in modern countries like the US that think this kind of Muslim practice/worship is wrong and not adhering correctly to the glory and sanctification of their god Allah, via the teachings in the Quran
The point that one cant be dismissive about is why are these people thinking this way and why in the near distant future one of these people will kill again a bunch of people to back up their taught beliefs .
I hope you, myself and anybody are not one these indirect victims of religious freedom.
To use another analogy there was a religious cult that started up in the 1960's called the Children of God ( The Family) and in this religious cult the leaders promoted the sexual engagement of all of its adherents, which involved children and incest.
Should the government not intervened and stopped this religious practice ?
I *absolutely* don't think we can be dismissive of the harmful aspects of religion. (Nor can I deny that many people find peace, community, joy, and hope in it...to me, it's kind of silly and pointless and I feel that I can find those things elsewhere, but who am I to deny that religion has done good as well?) Many religious organizations host soup kitchens for homeless people because they feel it imitates Jesus, but also may simultaneously hold sexist beliefs that put men above women. I can speak out against the one and recognize the positive contribution of the other. Of course I don't hope I'm the victim of an ISIS terrorist attack. I also hope I'm never in a Planned Parenthood clinic when an evangelical zealot opens fire. I work in the research center of a hospital. I hope an animal-rights extremist never bombs our building. I hope a lot of things. Evil, destructive people will always exist of all stripes. Religions, causes, and ideals are just tools or channels for them.
Secularism is spreading - many more people are openly non-religious now than at any other point in history, and that's good. I am all for encouraging that, but you can't just ban religion. It sets a dangerous precedent and a slippery slope, not to mention it just encourages a deeper ideological divide...it gives religious people a reason to feel persecuted rather than going "hey, these atheists are actually reasonable/rational people and my neighbors and don't wish me any harm. I guess I was wrong about them". I don't wish to ban religion...I wish for harmful practices to be outlawed. Terrorist attacks are *already* illegal. The disfellowshipping rule really can't be effectively legislated because ultimately it is a personal choice issue. Families become estranged for all sorts of reasons; shunning is a stupid/wrong/bad choice, but it *is* a choice that people make, to prioritize their religion above their family. You can't force people to accept their family. Better to focus on things that can make a difference - mandate reporting of ALL child abuse allegations, everywhere (some states do, some states don't), and then sue the fuck out of them when they don't deliver. Don't allow parents to deny children proper medical care. You brought up the Children of God...incest and child molestation are already illegal; it was appropriate for the government to interfere. (The Children of God still exist, by the way, just under a different name.) Do what you can to counteract demonstrably harmful *practices* legally.
But a bunch of poor rank-and-file Russian peasant saps, who already live in a pretty grim country, are going to be imprisoned and possibly tortured and killed over this. This doesn't hurt the GB much, minus the negligible impact on their wallets by having their property seized. But I bet all of the apostate rejoicing across the internet over the past few days sure does feed the JW persecution complex. I feel like the better, and more rational attitude, would be "I don't agree with your religion, and I think the way you treat outsiders is cruel. But I do not support what Russia has done; it is wrong, and as a fellow human being with the capacity for empathy, I recognize that." I saw someone criticizing a JW for wishing harm upon "worldlies" further up...didn't we all leave because we wanted to be better people than that? Actively cheering a banning that will certainly result in harm upon innocents (and will do zero to convince JWs that their beliefs are B.S.) is no better, and tantamount to vengeance and schadenfraude. I wish for their safety and eventual enlightenment instead.
I wish for their safety and eventual enlightenment instead.
I too but what if this ban makes JWS rethink critically about what this religion is composed of and of its asking and expectations ? .
I think this ban will promote Russian JWS to really think deeply about their faith, which might very well promote some perhaps many to leave .
I think this happened in Japan not too long ago and there is now a decline of JWS in Japan.
I too but what if this ban makes JWS rethink critically about what this religion is composed of and of its asking and expectations ? .
I think this ban will promote Russian JWS to really think deeply about their faith, which might very well promote some perhaps many to leave .
It could very easily have the opposite effect. I'm a fourth-generation JW, and the only one in my family ever to leave. My grandmother is a Canadian citizen and was part of the underground when the JWs were banned in Canada during WWII. My great-grandfather was imprisoned during the ban. They tell stories of the underground in reverent tones as though they were legends. They're PROUD of it, the same way they are proud of the STAND FIRM IN THE FACE OF HITLER stories they tell about the Holocaust. Sure; a few might see the writing on the wall and get the hell out of Dodge - some JWs also signed the renunciation papers when Hitler offered them (which I sure would do even if I still believed, because I'd rather be a live believer than a dead holdout). But for most JWs, this plays right into "This is what will happen right before Armageddon; the end is near; who knows, this could even be the beginning of the great tribulation!" bullshit they've been hearing all their lives. They're not the most educated or critically-thinking crayons in the box, and they're proud to be martyrs for the cause. They're an easy target for dictators, because for all their flaws, they are pacifists...they won't fight back, at least not physically.
And to be fair, I feel like whether it spurs some JWs to reconsider their beliefs isn't really relevant. It's still WRONG, and people will be hurt and die over this. Should we just feel that their lives are acceptable collateral damage just because they were gullible and latched onto or were raised in a dumb religion?
JWs are overall declining with the advance of the internet and the more ready availability of rational counterarguments and documented proof of the Society's hypocrisy. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
