questions for SwordOfJah and others like him

by SpiceItUp 102 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Hamas
    Hamas

    Sword of Jah,

    You didn't answer my question.

    It seems to me like you answer the questions you want to answer yet the hard ones you leave out.

    You state the organization is better than any other Christian church because it is the only one that is preaching God's Kingdom worldwide. After the death of Christ, was not the kingdom preached to all the earth anyway by the end of the 1st century?

    Also, how many Chinamen or Indians do you expect to see in the new system? If Armageddon is so near, which I hope for your sake it is not as you are now conversing with known apostates, the Society states that God WILL NOT destroy those that have not heard the good news. The ratio of publishers in China and India is very very low compared with the amount of people living there. You have no chance of catching this number up, it's impossible. Therefor, you will be witnessing to many Asians in the new world, would you not agree?

    Do the Maths man, it all adds up.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Larc said :
    Let me see if I understand you correctly. The Jehovah's Witnesses can make all kinds of mistakes as long as they continue to preach God's Kingdom. Now, if that is your major premis, how does that make them different than any other Christian Church?

    Sword replied,

    The difference is Jehovah's Witnesses are doing God's will and the other Christian Churches are not. Another difference is that JWs adhere stictly to what the Bible says and others don't. It's very simple really. Again without faith, you could not possibly understand this line of reasoning.

    Sword. Are you serious? Do you really expect people to view what you say above as a credible response? The only 'simple' thing around here is quite clearly on display. Do you appreciate that many JW lurkers are reading what you write? Imagine a 'New World' populated by such circular logic. A thousand year reign of persons puzzled as to how to tie their shoe laces.

    I have a growing conviction that the Governments should licence computers that are sent to certain out of the way villages. A little knowledge, it has been said is a dangerous thing, no knowledge is just a comedy.

    HS

  • JT
    JT

    SOJ

    You are good -my man, in fact you are almost as good as I was when I was new like you.

    It is good to see how you addressed those issues raised. in fact if you went back and looked at most former jw post you will find that your explanation was almost TEXTBOOK answers.

    I do commend you for taking the challenge, now what you must do is get OUT OF YOUR HEAD many quotes from the org that directly contridicted WHAT YOU THOUGHT -

    while the catch phrase

    "Taken out of context" works for awhile- when you go back and read THE ENTIRE ARTICLES like so many of us have done, the phrase THE APOSTATES TOOK THE WT OUT OF CONTEXT kinda melts away

    after awhile it gets harder and to defend what even most WT heavies such as CO, DO and bethelites will admit privately- that stuff was completely unfounded in the bible-

    allow me to tell you the process of leaving wt-

    the jw tries to explain away thier being on an Apostate site, by something like- "The WT only warns jw about the dangers of dialogging with apostates"

    of course we all know that the Official position is for a mature jw to have nothing to do with apostates and of course we could provide you will all the direct quotes from the wt on the issue, but we all know it matters not to a jw who is trying to justify being here-

    but hey - don't feel too bad many of us including myself did the exact same thing- with such classic statements as

    "I am defending the truth". "I am not associating with apostates in my home unless you are sitting in my living room" "I really don't know if you are DF or not" etc.

    but after awhile it just reaches the point where one realizes how foolish so much of what the wt says is just made up-

    I just smiled as I read your reponses - let's look at some of your excuses for the wt who now claims to speak for god himself:

    JT: I know what the publications say, and you quoting a sentence here and there does not prove anything. .

    translation_ yep i know you are correct, but i don't want to admit it, cause it will make me look bad

    GERARD: . Your looking at little stuff and making a big deal out of it.

    translation- yes i know what i call little stuff could get you DFed if you dissagreed, but i have to call it little stuff

    Miracle wheat: Was that view not corrected? Proof that Jehovah does cleanse the Organization from wrong beliefs.

    translation, - no the wheat didn't work as claim- not proof that god cleanse, it just didn't work sorta like a prayer cloth

    Great pyramid: Russell was trying to find the truth and he used different ways, but in the end Jehovah helped to correct those views. Another proof that Jehovah does guide his people.

    translation, - yep he was into that demonic stuff, but jah used him anyway

    Blood transfussions: The big picture is not whether to accept or not, the big picture is "are we going to be faithful to Jehovah's laws even when facing death".

    .

    translation- now this is funny, he states it is not whether or not one accepts it, when in fact that is the point, if one accepts it they are DA, if not they are considered good christain, so it is a matter of whether one accepts it or not- notice he called it jah law- at one time it WAS JAH LAW NOT TO ACCEPT BLOOD FRACTIONS, BUT jah changed that law

    Dates: I only agree that '75 was a problem, all the other dates are just quotations taken out of context. You were not there so you cannot possibly know what the brothers were doing or thinking at that time

    translation, yes i will conceded 75 was bogus, but i can't concede the other dates despite the fact that i can read all the details about them

    higher education, no sports at school, no music band: This is just one of those little things that you make it a big deal.

    translation: I know that the going to college was viewed as a direct level of ones spiritual mature state and now it no longer does

    shun relatives and friends: By this I'm guessing you don't approve disfellowshippings. But a person is disfellowshipped because of their decisions to sin and to have a contact contrary to the laws of Jehovah. That's their choice. The shunning is a consequence of your own actions. You should quit blaming others and start taking responsability for your own actions.

    translation- every person who is dfed is because they SINNED- and what was their sin???

    they questioned what was written in some UNINSPIRED publication from the wt-

    rape is fornication, or rape is not fornication: I think the Faithful & Discreet Slave has been clear about this policy always quoting from the Bible to backup their viewpoint.

    Now the above is funny, think about what he said- with each policy the wt has backed up it's view with the bible despite the FACT that thier position was 180 degrees from what it was the year before

    this is why folks say YOU CAN GET THE BIBLE TO SAY AND SUPPORT ANYTHINGA EVEN WHEN you change it back and forth

    I have read the quotes to criticize this policy and they are taken out of context. When you read the articles you know very well what the policy is. The only changes came after an understanding in whether a rape victim should be held accountable if they did not scream because they froze over fear.

    translation, all time favorite again, TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT

    WTBTS being a NGO member: This is another example of how the enemies of Jehovah blow things out of proportion

    TRANSLATION - I know the wt made a big deal when other religions became NGO members in fact writing articles about it, but of course when we became NGO it was'nt that bad

    so yes in a few years you will look back like most of us and laugh at how you were able to attempt to explain away documented proof of wt error

    when you try to explain away what ever one can read for themselves you sound much like the Presss offiecer for the Iraq gov-

    how sad

    but continue to read, cause you will not be able to get this info out of your head

  • SpiceItUp
    SpiceItUp

    SOJ

    Like promised I am back with more questions for you:

    What is God’s proper name “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”?

    In the English language, it is proper to use "Jehovah"

    If its proper in the English language then why do other countries where English is not the primary language do they still use that pronunciation? I will even go one step further to decree that god started all languages at the tower of Babel. Why would he choose one language over another as his own? And if he did choose one language why would it be English? English is not the original language that Bible itself was even written in. If the Witnesses want to be technical which they are in many scenarios (blood, women etc) they wouldn’t they want the original language and the original pronunciation?

    Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body currently teach that Armageddon will come before the close of the twentieth century according to information published in the January 1, 1989 Watch Tower? Also, why were the dates in the article changed to not be specific to the twentieth century when it was published in the bound form at the end of the year?

    I've seen the "supposed" conspiracy theories of apostates on this subject. To be honest, it's very lame. O.k. so they screwed up by saying "Twentieth" century. So what? I'm surprised that it was not caught before publication, but oh well. But what can we do? stone the writer to death?

    They screwed up you say. How could an organization that is inspired by god screw up in a major way such as this? How is this “supposed” when it is provable by pulling out that Watchtower and checking? Conspiracy theories are based on just that: THEORIES. This is not a theory. I challenge you to look this up in your copy of that watchtower and tell us what you find. When you find that it is quoted exactly as we say then I ask for you to look it up in the volume. Is there a difference and is it noted that it has been edited. This is a big one. This proves the Watchtower is a False Prophet. Oh and I thought your response to this was sarcastic at best.

    Did the Watch Tower and the Governing body believe and publish information that Jesus’s 1000 year millenial reign would take place in 1975?

    No publication said that "Armageddon WILL occur in 1975". Did the JWs believe that it could happen, yes. At the time they thought it could be a possibility. They were wrong and it was a hard lesson learned by all JWs.

    The same could also be for beards and women wearing pants. It has never been directly said but when such things are implied I think the Organization needs to apologize (at least) for its even implying. This is what happens when one is not directed by divine beings. Things go wrong. If it was directed by god, then there would have been no mistake in the interpretation by the masses that decided to believe in 1975. They have a duty to the millions that follow them no to imply certain things and apologize when said things are incorrect.

    I am still doing research on the rest but will come back with more for you when I am ready. I await your response.

  • gcc2k
    gcc2k

    Sword,

    You didn't answer my previous question. Would you? I am here for an open discussion, not to antagonize you.

    You said:

    WTBTS being a NGO member: This is another example of how the enemies of Jehovah blow things out of proportion. WTBTS has given a simple explenation over what happend, but no it is imposibble for the enemies of the organization to accept that simple explenation. They have to come up with some big conspiracy theory to try to make the brothers look like bad guys.

    WTBTS has given an explanation, and documentation from the UN has proven that explanation to be false. The UN says that being an NGO was not necessary for "library access" as the WT claims, and that policy predates the WTBTS' membership in the UN. I have personally written to the UN and verified that the documents posted which are attributed to the UN are genuine. Do you have an explanation for this then, or should I write the Society and ask myself?

    Answer this honestly - what, if anything, would cause you to lose confidence in the WTBTS as being used by Jehovah? What would shatter YOUR confidence? If your answer is "nothing", then you are wasting your time at this site.

    An elder said many years ago, "if the things you are saying are true, then that means I've wasted most of my life, and I am not willing to accept that possibility." So much for making sure of all things.

  • borgfree
    borgfree

    SwordofJah,

    You say:

    JT: I know what the publications say, and you quoting a sentence here and there does not prove anything.

    Isn't that exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses do when they quote the bible? One thing I learned, when I was leaving the WT org., is that, if I read the entire context of the scriptures, used by the JWs, the scriptures sometimes said just the opposite of what the JWs claimed they said.

    You have stated, I believe, in earlier posts, that the bible is the authority of JWs, that all teachings must agree with the bible. Do you believe that statement is true? If so, do you read the bible more than you read Watchtower publications?

    If you are serious about the bible being the most important authority to you, and all JWs, wouldn't it make sense to read it more than anything else? including WT literature?

    I would guess that you would answer, but Jehovah deals with us through the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" Sorry, you cannot use that excuse, you said earlier that everyone must answer to "Jehovah of Armies" and I said, and will repeat, you cannot then, shove the responsibility off onto them, or anyone else. You must stand before God and give the reasons why you believe as you do, why you act on your beliefs as you do, and why you persecute others as you do.

    Borgfree

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    SOJ is being bombarded with tons of questions and research, but SOJ you are to answer mine first .

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/51404/734296/post.ashx#734296

  • JT
    JT

    GCC2k

    says:

    Sword,

    You didn't answer my previous question. Would you? I am here for an open discussion, not to antagonize you.

    You said:

    WTBTS being a NGO member: This is another example of how the enemies of Jehovah blow things out of proportion. WTBTS has given a simple explenation over what happend, but no it is imposibble for the enemies of the organization to accept that simple explenation. They have to come up with some big conspiracy theory to try to make the brothers look like bad guys.

    WTBTS has given an explanation, and documentation from the UN has proven that explanation to be false. The UN says that being an NGO was not necessary for "library access" as the WT claims, and that policy predates the WTBTS' membership in the UN. I have personally written to the UN and verified that the documents posted which are attributed to the UN are genuine.

    I would just like to commend you for doing such excellent research- as you have demostrated

    there is no need to take anyones word on a matter when the material is availble if one is willing to do the research and --WHY NOT- since our very lives and decisions that we make are at stake-

    keep up the good work- see we don't dog you all the time --smile

    give a man credit were due I say

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    SoJ,

    What people aren't happy with your answers is because they aren't coming from you personally. They know that the answers come from directly from the WTS. Why? Because you know you aren't allowed to think independantly.

    *** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.22 Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs ***

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. 'You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,' Satan told Eve. 'You don't have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.' (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan's subtle design to infect God's people with this type of thinking.-2 Timothy 3:1, 13.

    21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. For example, God's organization has from time to time given warnings about listening to certain types of immoral and suggestive music, and about frequenting discos and other types of worldly dance halls where such music is played and people are known to engage in immoral conduct. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Yet certain ones have professed to know better. They have rebelled against such counsel and have done what is right in their own eyes. With what result? Very often they have become involved in sexual immorality and have suffered severe spiritual harm. But even if they have not been so affected, are they not reprehensible if others follow their example and suffer bad consequences?-Matthew 18:6.

    22 This fact cannot be overemphasized: We are in a war with superhuman foes, and we constantly need to be aware of this. Satan and his demons are real; they are not mere figments of the imagination. They are "the world rulers of this darkness," and we have a spiritual fight against them. (Ephesians 6:12) It is absolutely vital that we recognize their subtle designs and not allow ourselves to be overreached by them. Very appropriately, then, we will next consider how we can arm ourselves to fight against these wicked spirits.

    [Emphasis Added]

    Your answers are constructed from the WTS and none of your answers come directly from your own because you're not allowed to have an opinion of your own. Because if you do, that's a sign of apostasy and you will get into big trouble with your Elders or CO. People here on this forum would love it if you started thinking for yourself rather than allowing the WTS to do your thinking for you. Yizuman
  • JT
    JT

    GCC2k says:

    An elder said many years ago, "if the things you are saying are true, then that means I've wasted most of my life, and I am not willing to accept that possibility." So much for making sure of all things

    This in my opinion sums up the challenge that faces ANY JW who is willing to do what we are doing- this was the sticking point and this is what makes FORMER JW so mad-

    it is when one realizes that they have be BAMBOOZLED AND HOODWINK

    i have never met any man or woman who found any joy and happiness in being taken advantage of-

    and as you will see has you continue to pour over all the info that is avaiblable on the wt- why so many folks here come off literally PISSED OFF

    they realize they got Duped-

    While it may not mean much to some it is the "Concept" that hurts me- for example in the building i work in here in DC Johnny Cochran has an office on the8th floor we are on10 and many days i get on the elevator and their he is in his $5,000 suit

    one day i was coming in from lunch and as I as standing there waiting i heard this voice , i looked around and he was standing there with 2 young assoicates and we all got on the elevator and spoke to each other-

    as i was standing there they were discussing some legal jargon and i was thinking to myself - here are these 2 young black guys 25-30 - Lawyers-

    yet they are no smarter than me working for such a high profile person as him and yet I too could do the same thing- the only difference is in the choices I made- and why I made those choices

    I was told that college is "world wisdom" and Pioneering is the best way of life-

    and they were told that college would prepare them to be able to provide for themsleves and family in a comfortable manner and not have to scrape up 2 pennies every day to make ends meets

    it is amazing how ones life can turn out so differently when one has correct information and incorrect information from which to make decisions

    life is interesting

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