by cofty 95 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
What if I told you that your expert specifically attempts to refute all forms of radiometric dating. Would you be suprised ? I told Cofty I Would Be Laying A trap for you!.
Here is Part 1
http://www.icr.org/article/117/
You See Baumgardner indeed attempts to refute all forms of radiometric Dating. By his own words he has demonstrated that he is in disagreement with accepted science
Quote recovering
"What if I told you that your expert specifically attempts to refute all forms of radiometric dating. Would you be suprised ? I told Cofty I Would Be Laying A trap for you! . . . You See Baumgardner indeed attempts to refute all forms of radiometric Dating. . . " End Quote
The article about Siccar Point that we have have been discussing was not even written by John Baumgardner, but instead was written by Tas Walker. He never specifically mentioned radiocarbon dating in that article, yet you implied that he did, and made a big straw man argument about it.
Interesting article Recovering. As usual talk origins has addressed most of this creationist nonsense. I really cannot get my head around how anyone can take creationism seriously when the people forwarding these ideas are so clearly being dishonest with how they are presenting data.
As an aside with regards to this myth of a global flood let's leave the science aside and let hooberus explain how it is that other civilisations (The Chinese most notably) failed to notice that their entire empire was under water for nearly a year. Why did they not think that this sort of weather was worthy of recording down? Was it a normal occurrence for them?
Quote WhatshallIcallmyself
"Interesting article Recovering. As usual talk origins has addressed most of this creationist nonsense."
What's interesting is how evolutionists howl to the moon about "peer review" and then turn around link to non peer reviewed sites like "talk origins", recommend non peer reviewed books by Dawkins etc.
Hooberus i was unclear indeed the author was
Tas Walker . However he also tries to discredit radiometric dating see here
http://thecreationclub.com/the-fatal-flaw-with-radioactive-dating-methods-tas-walker/
So now we have discredited both your experts
There is no question that these things happened and that we are here.
The more we learn through our ingenuity, the more it should be evident that it all had the right start. imo. and
ps: if it did not have a start, that would even be more startling.
Hooberus -
The list of references below are just from that 1 article that I linked to above. If there isn't enough peer reviewed references for you to cross reference there then I think you ask too much!
REFERENCES (including Internet links, where available)
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Babinski, E.T. (ed.), 1995, Leaving the Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists, Prometheus, Amherst, NY.
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Broadhead, R., 2006, Helium in New Mexico: Geologic Distribution and Exploration Possibilities, New Mexico Bureau of Geology and Mineral Resources, A Division of New Mexico Tech, http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/documents/2006/06121broadhead/images/broadhead.pdf
Brookins, D.G., R.B. Forbes, D. L. Turner, A. W. Laughlin, and C. W. Naeser, 1977, Rb-Sr, K-Ar, and Fission-Track Geochronological Studies of Samples From LASL Drill Holes GT-1, GT-2, and EE-1, Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory Report LA-6229-MS, June.
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Dalrymple, G. B., 1984, "How Old is the Earth?: A Reply to `Scientific' Creationism," in Proceedings of the 63rd Annual Meeting of the Pacific Division, American Association for the Advancement of Science, v. 1, pt. 3, Frank Awbrey and William Thwaites (Eds). http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/radiometric_dating.html
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Gentry, R.V., G.L. Gush, and E.R. McBay, 1982a, "Differential Helium Retention in Zircons: Implications for Nuclear Waste Containment," Geophys. Res. Letters, v. 9, n. 10, p. 1129-1130. http://www.halos.com/reports/grl-1982-helium-in-zircons.pdf
Gentry, R.V., T.J. Sworski, H.S. McKown, D.H. Smith, R.E. Eby, and W.H. Christie, 1982b, "Differential Lead Retention in Zircons: Implications for Nuclear Waste Containment," Science, v. 216, April 16, p. 296-298. http://www.halos.com/reports/science-1982-lead-in-zircons.pdf
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Harrison, T. M.; P. Morgan and D. D. Blackwell, 1986, "Constraints on the Age of Heating at the Fenton Hill Site, Valles Caldera, New Mexico," J. Geophys. Res. v. 91, n. B2, p. 1899-1908.
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Humphreys, D.R., 1990, "Beyond Neptune: Voyager II Supports Creation," ICR Impact, n. 203, May. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=329
Humphreys, D.R., 2000, "Accelerated Nuclear Decay: A Viable Hypothesis?", Chapter 7 in L. Vardiman, A.A. Snelling and E.F. Chaffin (eds.), Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth, Institute for Creation Research, El Cajon, CA and Creation Research Society, St. Joseph, Mo, p. 333-379. http://www.icr.org/i/pdf/research/rate-all.pdf
Humphreys, D.R., 2003, "New RATE Data Support Young World," Impact, n. 366, Institute for Creation Research. http://www.icr.org/pdf/imp/imp-366.pdf
Humphreys, D.R., 2005a, "Helium Evidence for a Young World Remains Crystal Clear," at the True.origin website: http://www.trueorigin.org/helium01.asp ; pdf version at ICR website: http://www.icr.org/pdf/rate/humphreys_to_hanke.pdf
Humphreys, D.R., 2005b, "Young Helium Diffusion Age of Zircons Supports Accelerated Nuclear Decay," in L. Vardiman, A. A. Snelling, and E. F. Chaffin, Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth: Results of a Young-Earth Creationist Research Initiative, Institute for Creation Research, El Cajon, California and Creation Research Society, Chino Valley, Arizona, p. 25-100.
Humphreys, D. R., 2006, "Helium Evidence for a Young World Overcomes Pressure," http://www.trueorigin.org/helium02.asp
Humphreys, D. R., 2008a, "What ASA doesn't Want its Readers to Know", Creation Matters, v. 13, n. 2, March-April, p. 1,4. http://www.creationresearch.org/creation_matters/pdf/2008/CM13%2002%20low%20res.pdf
Humphreys, D.R., 2008b, "Helium Evidence for a Young World Continues to Confound Critics," http://creation.com/helium-evidence-for-a-young-world-continues-to-confound-critics
Humphreys, D.R., 2010, "Critics of Helium Evidence for a Young World Now Seem Silent," Journal of Creation, v. 24, n. 1, p. 14-16.
Humphreys, D.R.; S.A. Austin; J.R. Baumgardner and A.A. Snelling, 2003a, "Helium Diffusion Rates Support Accelerated Nuclear Decay," Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Creationism, R. Ivey (ed.), Creation Science Fellowship, Pittsburgh, PA. http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/Helium_ICC_7-22-03.pdf (Note: The helium values in Table 1 of this paper were modified after the conference and are consistent with the values in Table I of Humphreys et al. (2004). Without mentioning the post-conference changes to the paper, the linked copy at the ICR website includes the modifications, whereas the modifications are not present in the original proceedings distributed on a CD at the conference.)
Humphreys, D.R.; S.A. Austin; J.R. Baumgardner and A.A. Snelling, 2003b, "Precambrian Zircons Yield a Helium Diffusion Age of 6,000 Years," American Geophysical Union Fall Conference, Abstract V32C-1047. http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/AGUHeliumPoster_Humphreys.pdf Abstract published in Eos, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union 84(46), Fall Meeting Supplement as "Recently Measured Helium Diffusion Rate for Zircon Suggests Inconsistency with U-Pb Age for Fenton Hill Granodiorite."
Humphreys, D.R., S.A Austin, J.R. Baumgardner, and A.A. Snelling, 2004, "Helium Diffusion Age of 6,000 Years Supports Accelerated Nuclear Decay," Creation Research Society Quarterly, v. 41, n. 1, June, p. 1-16. http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/41/41_1/Helium_lo_res.pdf
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Isaac, Randy, 2008a, "A Dialogue about RATE: Isaac Replies", March, http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/rate-pscf.htm#helium
Isaac, Randy, 2008b, "Helium Diffusion and Retention in Zircons", http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/helium-ri.htm
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Laughlin, A.W., 1981, "The Geothermal System of the Jemez Mountains, New Mexico and its Exploration," in L. Rybach and L.J.P. Muffler (eds.) Geothermal Systems: Principles and Case Histories, Chapter 11, John Wiley & Sons, New York, p. 295-320.
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Quote recovering
"Hooberus i was unclear indeed the author was
Tas Walker . However he also tries to discredit radiometric dating see here
http://thecreationclub.com/the-fatal-flaw-with-radioactive-dating-methods-tas-walker/
So now we have discredited both your experts"
Once again:
He never specifically mentioned radiocarbon dating in that Siccar Point article, yet you implied that he did, and made a big straw man argument about it.
That he elsewhere wrote specifically about radiocarbon dating does not excuse your false accusation about the Siccar Point article, nor does it "discredit" him.
Evolutionists just cant stand anything that questions their version of history. They always do anything they can to attack any author, article, or source that disagrees with them. Its just one source attack after another.
"nor does it "discredit" him" - hooberus
Well if Tas quite clearly talks nonsense in the latter piece (and he does) then yes it does discredit him.
Hooberus
You refuse to see that your experts conclusions are flawed . What if I showed you that even your so called experts admitted that they where incorrect with regards radiometric dating? Would that be enough to persuade you?
A small group of YECs with legitimate Ph.D.s (including D. Russell Humphreys and John R. Baumgardner) have formed the RATE (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth) committee to attack the validity of radiometric dating. Rather than embracing the embarrassing distortions and nonsensical accusations of Woodmorappe or John and Henry Morris, Humphreys and Baumgardner have finally realized that geology and geochemistry are not going to give them the answers that they want. In an Answers in Genesis (AiG) article Carl Wieland had this to say:
When physicist Dr Russell Humphreys was still at Sandia National Laboratories (he now works full-time for ICR), he and Dr John Baumgardner (still with Los Alamos National Laboratory) were both convinced that they knew the direction in which to look for the definitive answer to the radiometric dating puzzle. [new paragraph] Others had tried—and for some, the search went on for a while in the early RATE days—to find the answer in geological processes. But Drs Humphreys and Baumgardner realized that there were too many independent lines of evidence (the variety of elements used in "standard" radioisotope dating, mature uranium radiohalos, fission track dating and more) that indicated that huge amounts of radioactive decay had actually taken place. It would be hard to imagine that geologic processes could explain all these. Rather, there was likely to be a single, unifying answer that concerned the nuclear decay processes themselves.
Btw the above quote was from a creationist site called Old Earth Ministries
