What is your opinion of the news media?

by minimus 491 Replies latest social current

• 

  Simon

  The mistake many on the left make is to think that political party affiliation equates to outlook and position.

  i.e. in order to be liberal, you have to be on the left and if you are not on the left you can't possible be liberal in any way.

  Yet people on the right can have liberal opinions on many things. Trump included comments about LGBTQ rights in his inauguration for instance.

  I consider myself a libertarian - socially liberal but fiscal conservative. Probably considered by those on the left to be more of an enemy than the right, because we're harder to discount as nazis but are willing to point out the stupid.
• 

  bohm

  Concretely, what do you propose doing with Putin? - I think it's a difficult issue, and even more difficult for me, given my ignorance.

  Couldn't America offer Putin some kind of incentives to back off the Ukraine and Baltics and quit interfering in EU countries?

  Well, you are proposing a departure from the current strategy (which I think is to weak by the way) which involves being more friendly to Russia since, as you wrote, the cold war was 25 years ago. I am curious what that strategy would be. What incentive should the US offer Russia to back of EU countries, something Russia denies doing?

  I am Russia. The following is based pro-kremlin pundits and in some cases Kremlin spokespeople:

  "The Obama administration was run by ignorant losers. They blame the failure of US diplomacy and their foreign involvement on Russia. The so-called hacking scandal was made up as an excuse for why Hillary Clinton, a politician nobody likes, lost and is yet another example of how the Obama administration blames its failure on Russia. We are happy the American people are tired of politicians who blame Russia to deflect from the many, credible reports their elections are rigged and their foreign policy is a mess.".
• 

  Spoletta

  Simon. I would never claim that you are racist or a Nazi. You are obviously not. You're articulate, and very skilled at presenting your viewpoint. I just disagree with it.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  you are proposing a departure from the current strategy - yes, there should be. You yourself said earlier that, vs the West, Putin has been coming out on top time and time again.

  What incentive should the US offer Russia to back off EU countries - well, in a bid to stop or water down Russia's aggressive foreign policy in Europe, how about the US (or a team of US/EU/NATO) offer Putin business deals, trade, international cooperation in places like Syria, plus possibly other sweeteners?

  ... their foreign policy is a mess - if Russia says this, well, I whole-heartedly agree.

  From the start of W. Bush's presidency through to the end of Obama's, US foreign policy has been a mess. The Iraq invasion, the removal of Gaddafi, the supporting of 'moderate' Islamists in Syria, plus, of course, the continued buying of Saudi oil which enriches one of the worst regimes on the planet - all of this has been dreadful.
• 

  bohm

  LUHE: "well, in a bid to stop or water down Russia's aggressive foreign policy in Europe, how about the US (or a team of US/EU/NATO) offer Putin business deals, trade, international cooperation in places like Syria, plus possibly other sweeteners?"

  "The Russian federation happily accepts normalization of trade relations between Russia and the rest of the world."

  (2 months later, shelling of Donbass resumes)

  What then?
• 

  Finkelstein

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpDIE8tTw8
  
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  "The Russian federation happily accepts normalization of trade relations between Russia and the rest of the world."

  (2 months later, shelling of Donbass resumes)

  What then? - the business deals and trade would be made on condition that Russia doesn't shell the Donets Basin.
• 

  bohm

  "The Russian federation is not attacking Donbass. Terrorists in collaboration with the corrupt Ukraine government is attacking civilians in the Russian region of Crimea as well as terrorising the large native Russian population in Donbass. We call for the UN to condemn these acts of terrorism and fairly mediate peace between Russia and the Ukraine regime".

  We can then continue where we left off: Russia knows the west will quickly back down on sanctions because this is what happened the last time. Asides, is any of this proven? What if Russia can influence an EU country to veto the sanctions?
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  "The Russian federation is not attacking Donbass. Terrorists in collaboration with the corrupt Ukraine government is attacking civilians in the Russian region of Crimea as well as terrorising the large native Russian population in Donbass. We call for the UN to condemn these acts of terrorism and fairly mediate peace between Russia and the Ukraine regime".

  We can then continue where we left off: Russia knows the west will quickly back down on sanctions because this is what happened the last time - ok, what do you propose re how to deal with Putin?

  Keep in mind that recent policy on how to deal with Russia has allowed Putin to come out on top time and time again ...
• 

  bohm

  LUHE: Easy. Repeat the 80s.

  • Recognize that Russia is acting as an enemy and adjust
  • Make CLEAR AND CREDIBLE threats
  • Declare sanctions can't be lifted without serious Russian concessions

  This worked when Russia was a superpower and it has not been how the US/EU has been dealing with Russia under Obama.