What is your opinion of the news media?

by minimus 491 Replies latest social current

• 

  bohm

  LUHE:

  It is a rather simple point. In popular speech, "the left" and "the right" are two mutually exclusive and exhaustive sets. Within both sets, you find subsets of people. For instance, you find the Nazis within the right and the nut-left SJWs within the left.

  I belong to one of those sets, namely "the left". When you are therefore saying "the left <something bad>", that sentences assume whatever follows apply to me.

  That is not nice if it does not, in fact, apply to me as a member of the "center-left", but only a subset of the people on the left. Do you see my point?
• 

  Simon

  No, the media decide what the truth is.

  An example of voter fraud - on CNN they interject to say that it is fake news and that it doesn't happen. But they don't know and have no business trying to present their hopes as facts. A balanced media would report cases where it has been found and some of the reports (even if it labels then unsubstantiated or never-investigated).

  The often act as the judge and jury on an issue and present the belief that people should have rather than the evidence on either side.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  What do you propose? Lifting sanctions against Russia and hope they will stop the current operations to take Donbass? - I'm a bit light on the details but I propose some kind of working relationship with Putin.

  E.g. America could say "we'll do such-and-such a deal with you if you leave Ukraine and the Baltic states alone" or "we'll give you x, y and z on the condition that you stop interfering with EU countries", etc.

  Sorry for the lack of details but I'm not particularly well-read on these matters.

  But I hope you get where I'm coming from. Obama's approach didn't stop Putin annexing Crimea, neither did NATO's approach. When Obama condemned Putin's recent involvement in Syria, Putin didn't give a f**k.

  Perhaps it's time for a different approach?
• 

  bohm

  Simon: Just to make the distinction, I did not say returning ISIS terrorists were not dangerous, I meant that ISIS is not insofar as I know actively sending terrorists to the west yet.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  For instance, you find the Nazis within the right and the nut-left SJWs within the left - but right-wing politicians condemn Nazis' views, slap them down, delegitimise them, sack them. The left doesn't do that with nut-left SJWs, or if it does, it's so rare that it doesn't do it nearly enough.

  When you are therefore saying "the left <something bad>", that sentences assume whatever follows apply to me.

  That is not nice if it does not, in fact, apply to me as a member of the "center-left", but only a subset of the people on the left - it doesn't apply to you specifically but it does still apply to the left because the left is refusing to clean house at the moment.
• 

  Simon

  It is a rather simple point. In popular speech, "the left" and "the right" are two mutually exclusive and exhaustive sets

  I think that's simplistic. At the extremes, people tend to belong to one or the other, but the closer you get to the center the more people's set membership becomes based on issues.

  And of course it isn't like a see-saw, more like a roundabout - many on the left are so far left they have gone right round the other side and are actually nazis.
• 

  Simon

  For me, the difference between the left and right right now is what proportion of those identifying as those groups are extreme within the group.

  I think there are more extreme people in the left than in the right.
• 

  bohm

  LUHE: Read about Russian politics. Kasparovs book is a good place to start.

  Optics about Putin are very important internally in Russia. He has to be seen as a strong man and this image is very well controlled in a number of ways in the propaganda.

  It sounds retarded, but it makes sense of many things Putin is doing. For instance, that is why he always leaves leaders waiting for him if at all possible. That is why he has the particular body language he has.

  Putin has an ongoing campaign of aggression against the west and he has so far come out on top again and again (paradoxically, that he wagers this campaign is a sign of weakness: he needs victories abroad).

  What can be done to stop Putin is to ensure that the consequences of this campaign outweigh the benefits. In other words, he must be made to look weak or risk being made to look weak. That is being accomplished with the sanctions (which he can't do anything about) and by credible threats of losing or being forced into concessions.

  If Putin is given Crimea now against lifting sanctions, why not continue with Donbass? Why do anything different in Europe? Because he promised not to? There would be no incentive for him to do so.

  This approach, make Putin promise (sort of) something and believe he will keep it, is the approach Bush and in particular Obama took with Putin. In reality, Putin computes the cost/benefits and do what seems best.
• 

  freemindfade

  For me, the difference between the left and right right now is what proportion of those identifying as those groups are extreme within the group.

  I agree, and I hope the center gets bigger and a different identity or maybe no identity but a neutral place for logical crossover. I think to identify yourself with either side so staunchly as to say it, you are showing you are simply taking a side, and when someone calls you left your right they are speaking the extreme elements that are beyond rationality.
• 

  bohm

  Simon: I think we use language differently and our background gives us different expectation about what terms like "the left" and "the right" means. I think it is more accurate insofar this site is concerned that I say I am part of "the center" (aka the cowards) rather than redefine "the left".