by justhuman 102 Replies latest social current

  • Zep


    "are the people of iraq going to be better or worse off when they actually have a voice in how their country is run? "

    Dont know!

    Will they have a voice? Will democracy even get off the ground? Will the various ethnic and religious groups in Iraq get along? Will they be able to agree on a democratic model? Will they be allowed the type of democracy they want? Will they choose an Islamic democracy with an anti west government. Or will they choose a secular democracy with a pro west Government?

  • rmayer32
    Erm ... you may want to read the article I linked to before making statements like that. It is what you have been tought to believe ... but it ain't the truth! This claim that it ended the war and saved millinos just saves having to face the reality that the USA did a very bad thing.

    So what you are saying is we nuked Japan just for fun?? Get a life Simon!

    Media is one thing, they will tell you what they want you to know, yes this is true but it's also due to security and putting too much of anything in the media compromises intelligence. Been there, worked with it for over 10 years, I've seen what doesn't get published in the news in particular during the Gulf War. Perhaps you are buying into Iraqis info minister and his claims of "nothing going on here" line of bullshit?

    Bottom line is unless you are knowledgable on information from the inside be it american, british intel or whatever you have to take what you see and read in the media for what it is worth as far as how much they are telling. Unless you enjoy conspiracy crapp which I'm beginning to wonder.


  • rmayer32
    rmayer; PLEASE, I mean PLEASE, go learn some history;

    Okay smartass, so sorry.

    WWII in Europe ended BEFORE WWII ended in Asia. They teach this at High School.

    Yes, Germany surrendered in May as Japan in September. I caught this after I posted it so the mistake is mine, however the point is really the same. Besides that the fact that we did drop those bombs hasn't one damn thing to do with today, does it?

    Far as your high school b.s. goes.. All I can do is smile. However, I guess we aren't allowed any little mistakes around here when others are ready to pounce on them to as to try and be so cute. Of course the anti-americanism on this board runs strongly enough around here that I should censure myself for choosing not to correct my post an hour after I put it up. But oh, well.

    Hoever Abbadon, since we are being cute, do you want to translate the letters F.O. for me?? That's what I think of your little snide remarks. Have a nice day


  • rmayer32
    Isn't grand that this is how "peace and freedom" is accomplished, by everyone in the world denying their cultural and traditional background so they may wave the Stars and Stripes?

    What is this we are denying? As it stands under the current regime, they grow up and say anything disagreeing with their government they might get their tongue cut out, and that would be best case scenario. Damn good thing you don't live in a place like that or you'd have no limbs left.


  • dolphman

    Listen to Simon and others TRY and weasel out of every nook and crannie they are now stuck in for supporting Saddam Huseein, the French, the sad UN, and others.

    I'm sure there are pictures of mutilated American soldiers somewhere. The fact is in WAR people DIE. NO duh! The whole thing is sad, but not as sad as supporting an evil dictator and making excuses for not doing the inevitable, the only thing that could have freed the iraqi people, squashed terrorist training centers in Iraq, and found WMD. And thats war folks, take it or leave it. The only thing that works.

    You guys are still trying to make excuses...JEEZ, you lost the argument, ok? Turn on CNN and see the dancing Iraqis for yourselves. If anybody should be pissed, it's them. I'm sure there are plenty of families in Iraq mourning the loss of their loved ones, just as they're are those in the US doing the same. But it was nescessary, sorry, this is how the world works.

    Be thankful you didn't have to sacrifice anything.


  • Angharad

    dolphman: believe what you want and mischaracterise what I said as you see fit. I haven't lost any "argument" as you put it and have nothing to try and "weasel out of". You should try and find some place where anyone has said they support Saddam.

    This is not over becuase we pulled a statue over !! Whether this can be judged truly successful depends on the peace and long-term stability of the region and whether the Iraqi people get what is theirs.

    The shiite muslims that are jubilant at the removal of Saddam by America / Britain do not like America or Britain too much and we may find that the anomisity they had towards Saddam is transferred to us. Time will tell.

  • Simon

    oops ... that was me

  • Francois

    Gitasatsangha, in your post above, I find that I can agree with absolutely nothing you've said. It is a mere emotional harangue. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

    Neighborhoods, cultures, countries all have the right to protect themselves. It is manifestly apparent that the USA and the world needed protecting from Saddam Hussein; and Bush & Co. are doing just that. Or would you rather be riding on the Metro one day and get your first whiff of Sarin, or VX, or something just as lethal?

    I find this entire debate twenty miles wide and an eighth of an inch deep.


  • Trauma_Hound
    Listen to Simon and others TRY and weasel out of every nook and crannie they are now stuck in for supporting Saddam Huseein, the French, the sad UN, and others.

    Umm no one said they supported Saddam, oh my god France disagreed with the US position. Should we invade France now? Now post a link where ANYONE said they supported Saddam, or shut up.

  • D8TA
    keep seeing this appreciate being enlightened on the subject.

    For Dubla,

    You want enlightenment, then come down here to Brazil and I'd be happy to show you the direct affect of the U.S.’s so called "freedom and liberation" (propaganda in the U.S.). Or I'd be happy to travel to Indonesia and let you experience from the population's eyes and testimony of exactly how western corporate and trade influence has disrupted and made these areas worse off.

    You think the people in Iraq will have their "own voice"??? Jesus, are you ignorant. In one day, I'd show you exactly who has a "voice" in that country....just like here in Brazil. Who has the power now? Organized crime. Instead of having one murderous dictator, now they will have hundreds of warring factions...while the U.S. opens it's pretty nice little market places, so the golden arches can be seen on every street corner. All the while, as John & Jane Q. Jones of U.S.A. sit comfortably in their Lazy-Boy recliners and thinking they are doing "good in the world", the government of the U.S. is openly negotiating and recognizing these "organized crime cartels and mafia (yes, Drug Lords too) so that they (the U.S.) may do "business" in their countries. So instead of having 1 Saddam Hussein, you now have 20 to 100 of them.

    Come down here, let me show you exactly what "really" goes on, if you are brave enough how about "live what goes on"...and just like those who have come down here, you will leave with an entire "new perception" as to what the affects of U.S. policy is. I guarantee it. I'd be happy to enlighten you.



    Damn good thing you don't live in a place like that or you'd have no limbs left.

    What the hell do you know about where I've lived, country boy? Please state the 17 prior countries I've called home in the last 10 years, then state the one's you've "lived and experienced".

    In fact, please give us your knowledge and wisdom out of your own grand experience of dealing with nations who have been affected by U.S. foreign policy. Any personal testimonies that you would like to share with the board? Experiences of the average citizen of such nations you wish to convey? How about your dealings with those impovrished or been affected by U.S. bullets and bombs? Tell us of your daily travels in to ghettos, favelas, and ficas of this world...that are directly affected by U.S. trading practices or debt control, or their dealing with the local crime syndicates. Please, do so.

    Oh wait, you mean you haven't? You mean, you sit in your chair everyday getting your info from CNN and FoxNews (as they want to SELL you their news)??? Is this the same chair you sit in while you enjoy your favorite football team on Sunday mornings?

    There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path....many here haven't walked past their own front yard...and rely on their own national news media to supply them with information. You know, the same news media that is brought to you by Budweizer beer, and Ford motor company, and Microsoft.

    By the way, I have lived in countries in which they do cut your limbs off. The same ones that the U.S. doesn't recognize, because such countries do not offer any "commercial market frontiers". Or ones that the U.S. does recognize, but wheel and deal with corrupt leaders and organzed crime syndicates.


    For Everyone else.

    Look at that picture again. Ask yourself; Why is the child holding only a U.S. flag?

    Are not the sons and daughters of England and Spain (and other countries) also fighting in this war? Have they not spilt blood for this so called "liberation and freedom". Would not their flags also represent such symbolism? Then why not wave such flags also. Why is it that Rome...oh sorry...the U.S. always use propaganda that "they-themselves" do everything. (First ignorant fool to say, "because they do everything", better stop posting here and invest in a good college education...and move their ass away from their T.V. sets.)

    Makes you think, doesn't it?

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