Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop 233 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  bohm

  LUHE: I actually answered that; my views are similar to Bernhard Haykel. tl;dr: ISIS is in important ways deriving their teachings from the Quran.

  While I don't think ISIS is as historically accurate as they portray themselves to be (read the article) I do not (and have not!) at any point denied they derive many of their teachings from the Quran, which I consider to be full of morally outrageous teachings, often using natural interpretations,

  Now that I have pointed out I have answered this question can you now explain how we go from that fact to demonstrating that "to be a good Muslim you have to be a butcher and a rapist"? I will make it easier for you: I will be content with a demonstration that a good Muslim have to be a rapist.

  
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  @bohm - no, you didn't answer the following:

  who follows the example of the murderous Jihadist Mohammed the closest?

  The murderous Jihadists of ISIS or Maajid Nawaz who, with the best of intentions, is trying to reform Islam?
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  bohm

  I am bored of this conversation. I replied by a reference to an article because I don't think a yes or no answer is very illuminating. If I do give a yes or no answer anyway, despite my belief that important nuances will be lost, will you answer my question?
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  LoveUniHateExams

  If I do give a yes or no answer anyway, will you answer my question? - yes.
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  bohm

  very well. Noting that I think it is oversimplifying things then yes. I am now curious to hear your argument for why a good Muslim must be a rapist.
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  slimboyfat

  Don't throw your pearls before swine.
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  freemindfade

  bohm I think the problem is you are trying to discuss ISIS vs Islam, and to me that's not the discussion. ISIS is one crap part of it, but its not all, its not all the terrorists, it's not all the human rights that Islam violates. saying "good" Muslim has too many interpretation of what "good means to too many people. Adherents is probably a better word, and yes, scumbags ISIS or otherwise who base their bullshit on the Quran are very adherent. Hows that?
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  bohm

  Adherents is probably a better word, and yes, scumbags ISIS or otherwise who base their bullshit on the Quran are very adherent. Hows that?

  I think that is exactly what I have been saying for pages. I even quoted a scholar who holds that belief: ISIS base their beliefs on the Quran, in particular one kind of interpretation of the Quran. If this is not true I would like to see a refutation.

  bohm I think the problem is you are trying to discuss ISIS vs Islam, and to me that's not the discussion.

  What is the discussion then? I objected to the claim that a good muslim has to be a rapist. If you believe this claim is true I would very much like to hear your reasoning. If not, I don't understand what people are objecting to as this has been my point.

  ISIS is one crap part of it, but its not all, its not all the terrorists, it's not all the human rights that Islam violates

  Well, bingo. That's precisely my point. Can you explain how I am an Islamophile if we agree that ISIS is a subset of Islam but not all of Islam? It is possible you are suffering of some Islamophelia as well.
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  dogisgod

  There was a huge group of Muslim women who stood on that same bridge in protest of the loony toons actions.
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  @bohm - ok, you think that ISIS follows Muhammad more closely than Maajid Nawaz does. I agree with you.

  Simon said "to be a good Muslim you have to be a butcher and a rapist".

  Ok, bear with me ...

  It's obvious that ISIS members butcher and rape - we can all quickly agree on that.

  Well, Muhammad was a butcher (personally beheaded hundreds of unarmed Jewish prisoners) and a rapist (had sex with a nine year old girl = rape), too.

  Muslims accept Muhammad as God's apostle and hold his life up as something to be copied.

  Although not necessarily considered part of mainstream Islam, everything ISIS does is according to Sharia and the example of Muhammad. So, ISIS members have the required qualities of Muhammad's example and meet the strict standard of Sharia. Hence, they can be spoken of as 'good' Muslims.

  Maajid Nawaz doesn't copy Muhammad anywhere near as much, what with all the liberal values he's trying to mix into the religion of Islam. Therefore he's a 'bad' Muslim (but a 'good' or 'desirable' person).

  This is sadly the reality of the situation. It doesn't sit well with you and your type but good Muslims aren't good people. People who hold up Muhammad's example - with all the terrible things he did and said - and think Sharia is the best law to live under cannot be considered to be good (i.e. desirable) people.