I'm astounded by the UNDER-PATRIOTISM Displayed

by Yerusalyim 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Yerusalyim

  Yep,

  It boggles my mind, so many here would rather believe Saddam Hussein than their own government. So many here seem CERTAIN the Bush Administration is lying, but trust Hussein to tell the truth. People here shout about their "rights" being violated but are unwilling to defend those rights. People here yell about civil rights, yet stand by and watch the Human rights of millions of Iraqis violated. People here seem to want to bow before the altar of the United Nation, forfieting the right of self defense and self determination, yet say nothing when the UN selects IRAQ to Chair the committee for disarmamant and Libya to Head the commission on Human Rights. Legitimate criticism of the government is fine. The sniping that generally goes on here turns my stomach.

  Sell outs and blow hards, the lot of you!
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  talley

  DITTO !!
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  Nikita

  AMEN!!!
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  reubenfine

  I would like to say that I appreciate reading all your comments, Yerusalyim. However, my take on it is I am not under-patriotic, but I have absolutely zero patriotism in my blood. After 47 years of observation, I believe that every word coming out of a politician's mouth is a lie for their own profit. I'm not a cynical person, but when it comes to government I'm 100% cynical.

  My point is.............our rights are from God, and the government's job is to preserve those rights. That is the purpose of government, as Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independance, which is why elected officials have to swear to uphold the Constitution and laws. So really, the GOVERNMENT is obligated to be loyal to me. I owe no loyalty to the government. They are my servants. (Yeah, right). Patriotism is a snow job by the government, twisting the masses to be loyal to them so they can get away with shearing us like sheep, (to the tune of a proposed 2.2 trillion dollar budget proposal, etc.). I think if you read Jefferson, Madison, and others from that time, you will find that they feared government and never preached patriotism. In fact, Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." He also said a little revolution here and there would keep the government in line. "God forbid we go 20 years without a revolt," was what he wrote. So he advocated resistance, not loyalty, because the nature of government is to take and take and always will until they are stopped. If the founding fathers were patriotic we would never had a revolution. In fact, many were loyal to the King and that was a problem at the time.

  I don't support Hussein nor do I support Bush. I support truth over the lie. Of course, the first casualty of war is truth, so in war time I'm particulary suspicious.

  Even though I disagree with you on this one, keep up the fine posts. I hope I wasn't disagreeable, just my humble opinion.

  Edited by - reubenfine on 11 February 2003 10:23:42
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  Trauma_Hound

  Yep,

  It boggles my mind, so many here would rather believe Saddam Hussein than their own government. So many here seem CERTAIN the Bush Administration is lying, but trust Hussein to tell the truth. People here shout about their "rights" being violated but are unwilling to defend those rights. People here yell about civil rights, yet stand by and watch the Human rights of millions of Iraqis violated. People here seem to want to bow before the altar of the United Nation, forfieting the right of self defense and self determination, yet say nothing when the UN selects IRAQ to Chair the committee for disarmamant and Libya to Head the commission on Human Rights. Legitimate criticism of the government is fine. The sniping that generally goes on here turns my stomach.

  Sell outs and blow hards, the lot of you!

  Nobody here has said they trust Saddam anymore, but your so blinded by your love for G Dub, you can't really actually read what anyone has said. What do Iraqi's rights have to do with our rights? Absolutely nothing, they are not american citizens, if anything your the one that's unpatriotic, because you care more about Iraqi rights, then our own rights. You think violating our own constitution is patriotic? LOL That's got to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while. You'd rather have our country run like a police state, than actually fight for our constitution rights. Why don't you go move to China, or North Korea, or maybe Cuba, if that's what you want.
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  Mulan

  I also don't support Saddam Hussein, but I also don't think it's any business of this country to tell them what to do.

  One thing I know for sure, is that if America attacks Iraq, and they do have weapons, they will use them.
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  Yerusalyim

  TH and Mulan,

  I respectfully disagree. Our freedoms mean absolutely NOTHING if we aren't willing to extend them to people world wide. The "I've got mine" attitude is what made WWI and WWII possible.

  Mulan, yes, chances are he will try to use some of the weapons he has, the trouble is, he's already done so. Besides which, I'm convinced of the connection made by Powell between Iraq and Al Qaeda. The arrests in Paris and London of the lovely little gents with Ricin is just more proof of why it is we need to take out Saddam.

  But again, if our freedoms are dear to us, if we wish to preserve them, we have to go out on a limb for those without them.
• 

  LB

  believe Saddam Hussein than their own government.

  I was once a patriot Yeru. I no longer am. I do not trust our government any more than any other government. I voted for Bush over Gore and like most people that vote, I voted for the one that seemed less screwed up. Not because I supported Bush.

  I also believe that our government isn't as kind and good as many suspect. They take half my money as they believe they are entitled to it. If I don't fill out a form correctly they can take my home if they want. No one else has that power in my life. Well maybe the wife does but she's more fun than the government. I suppose I trust our government as much as an ex wife.

  I am not willing to die for the flag. Ever. If my son were drafted I would help him to escape. I would be willing to die for family and friends. Never for the empire.

  I do support an all out attack on Iraq and it isn't because I'm a patriot. It simply makes sense to me.
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  TR

  I agree, Yeru.

  Who's going to help the oppressed people's of the world? How could we as a super power nation stand by and let brutal murderers like Saddam exert his power and control in the world? The answer is, we can't. We need to deal with the world bullies like Saddam and take him out, pronto!

  And for you who think we're just talking imperialism? Look at Germany and Japan. We rebuilt these nations, now we compete with them economically. Look at France. We saved these countries ASSES, and now they turn their backs on us. Guess what? That's not going to stop us from helping in the future.

  It IS our business what other countries do! Wether we like it or not! It is incumbent on the U.S. to try to see that rogue nations around the world don't create another third reich!

  TR
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  obiwan

  When you have a group of people on this board that have been raised not to be PATRIOTIC to anything but the borg and then find out that was all an illusion, what do you expect?The switch just can't be turned off when you have been raised to beleive certain things, they stick with you. The fact that you think you see under-patriotism does not mean that people are not patriotic but maybe they just don't know how to.I was born and raised in the borg till I was 21, I'm 34 know....I have no concept of how to be patriotic to something I was basically taught to hate.

  I don't want you to think this is a lashing out on the contrary this is a way to help you understand your fellow board members, those who have been through some of the things you have.