I'm astounded by the UNDER-PATRIOTISM Displayed

by Yerusalyim 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sara Annie
    Sara Annie
    When her sister went to open it, a window came up a informed her that a message "derogatory to our government" was intercepted and that she will not be able to receive it.

    Sounds like an email that runs a clever little macro that was designed to do exactly what it's doing right now--make people overreact and animatedly discuss the "implications of this kind of government censorship!"

    Bravo to the programmer--he/she sure achieved the "spin 'em around and watch 'em go!" goal!

  • D8TA
    Let me get this straight, they have the tech to filter out Bush jokes but yet they cant get rid of all the bullshit spam????? Please...........

    And again, I'll straigten you....

    For the ignorant name callers, and "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" morons, try starting your own research to prove or disprove your claims. Your one liners are getting old, and you are making an ass out of yourself due to a lack of knowledge.

    Let me equate:

    Someone says: Hey 1+1=2

    You say: No it doesn't, really it doesn't, because I say so, without having anything to back up my contrary position.

    Do you like looking stupid in the public eye? Or is this your natural display of stupidity and ignorance.


    ACLU Asks Court to Order Government to Immediately Account for its Use of Vast New Surveillance Powers
    November 13, 2002


    NEW YORK-- The American Civil Liberties Union today asked a federal court to order the Department of Justice to respond immediately to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking information on the government's use of extraordinary new surveillance powers granted to it by Congress last year.

    "As the Justice Department has conceded, there is widespread public concern about the scope of the new surveillance powers and the possibility that the government is abusing them," said Jameel Jaffer, an attorney with the ACLUs Technology and Liberty Program.

    "The records we have identified would enable the public to judge for itself whether these new surveillance powers are necessary and whether they are being used as they should be," he added.

    The ACLU sought the court order today after more than two weeks of negotiations with Justice Department lawyers failed to secure the governments cooperation with the legal request.

    In legal papers filed today in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, the ACLU asked Judge Ellen Segal Huvelle to order the Justice Department to disclose within seven days what relevant records its possesses and to release those records within 20 days. The ACLU also asked the court to schedule oral arguments as quickly as possible.

    The records requested concern the government's implementation of the USA PATRIOT Act, legislation that was passed in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. By amending laws such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), USA PATRIOT vastly expands the governments authority to obtain personal information about those living in the United States, including United States citizens.

    In a letter to the ACLU dated Sept. 3, the Justice Department agreed to respond to the FOIA request speedily, acknowledging that the request concerned "a matter of widespread and exceptional media interest in which there exist possible questions about the governments integrity which affect public confidence."

    The ACLU and the Electronic Privacy Information Center filed the lawsuit on October 24 as attorneys for their organizations and for the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression and the Freedom to Read Foundation, citing concerns that the new surveillance laws threaten the First Amendment-protected activities of librarians, library patrons, booksellers and their customers, and investigative journalists.

    The Freedom of Information Act request, which was filed on August 21, seeks general information about the use of new surveillance powers, including the number of times the government has:

    • Directed a library, bookstore or newspaper to produce "tangible things," e.g, the titles of books an individual has purchased or borrowed or the identity of individuals who have purchased or borrowed certain books;
    • Initiated surveillance of Americans under the expanded Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act;
    • Conducted "sneak and peek" searches, which allow law enforcement to enter people's homes and search their belongings without informing them until long after;
    • Authorized the use of devices to trace the telephone calls or e-mails of people who are not suspected of any crime;
    • Investigated American citizens or permanent legal residents on the basis of activities protected by the First Amendment (e.g., writing a letter to the editor or attending a rally).

    David Sobel, General Counsel to the Electronic Privacy Information Center, emphasized that the FOIA request does not seek any information whose disclosure could compromise national security. "We are asking only for aggregate statistical data and other policy-level information," he said. "The release of this information would not jeopardize ongoing investigations or undermine the governments ability to respond to new threats."

    In related litigation , the ACLU and other groups filed a friend-of-the-court brief in September urging a secret FISA appeals court to reject the Justice Departments radical bid for broadly expanded powers to spy on U.S. citizens. A decision from the FISA Court of Review is expected imminently.

    The attorneys in the case are Jaffer and Ann Beeson of the national ACLUs Technology and Liberty Program, Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center and Arthur B. Spitzer of the ACLU of the National Capital Area.

    The ACLU's legal papers filed today are online at: http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11279&c=206 and http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11281&c=206

    For more information on the FOIA action, including links to the original request, go to http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11048&c=130.

    Edited by - D8TA on 11 February 2003 15:22:42

    Edited by - Simon on 12 February 2003 7:1:34

  • ARoarer


    I am an American, and always felt that way even as a JW. Yes I agree with you that many on this board are not as Patriotic as you or I may feel. I could also explain why I disagree with many of their reasoning, but I could never, never put it so eloquently as Sarah Annie did in her post. She so hit the nail right on the head. And to add to that , yes our country may be arrogant, and proud, but we are living in a country that would never do to it's people what Saddam has done to his. I know there are many corrupt politicians, but there is a greater picture here. There are good forces and evil forces. We have seen the difference in the past and in the recent times this past year. Adolf Hitler was an example of one of the darkest most evil driven force reckoned with lasy century. I suspect Bin Laden, and Saddam Hussein have made their way into being two of the darkest evil forces during this century. Say what some of you will against President Bush, but the good that has come out of dealing with these evil forces recently is the freedom that many of those Afghanistanian women have enjoyed recently. They are free to take off thier Burka and thier daughters are free to have an education and use thier education in the free world. Just as women in our country do. You know we were all devout Jehovha Witnesses at one time until we realized that belief system has all the same attitude as Bin Laden, believe as he does or die. I would rather believe as was once said in the Bible, that greater love has no man than to lay down his life for another. That is what soldiers are doing over there and have done in the past so we and our children can have the freedoms we enjoy in this country. Women in Afganistan have taken off their Burka because someone was willing to die over their to save the world from the evil forces that rule that country. I would not want my son to die for this country, but I am damned glad somebody else's son loved his fellow man enough to die for a principle that keeps us free to choose how we speak, how we believe, how we live and how we die. September 11 was a wake up call that helped me to see just how evil forces can be, and how much I love this country. God Bless America.

    Edited by - ARoarer on 11 February 2003 15:41:32

  • ARoarer


    I just heard on the news that Bin Laden has put out a tape urging Iraq to start suicide bombing Americans.

  • Realist


    so? is that at all surprising?

  • dubla

    For the ignorant name callers....

    if the "name callers" are ignorant, what does that make you, considering the quantity of personal attacks youve tossed around on this thread alone?


  • Gamaliel

    First of all, thanks for these threads. What was that rule we learned in physics that explained how a lighter person could balance a heavier person on the see-saw/teeter-tooter by sitting farther back? The weight times the distance from the fulcrum was the balancing factor? I think that these threads are never appear balanced because the people farthest from the center of the belief spectrum try to add weight by pumping up the volume. I think that's why these discussions don't always make much sense to us masses with centrist tendencies. We're also not quite as passionate and therefore quieter than those who shift or gravitate towards the extreme positions.

    I'd like to think that more of us believe the world is rather too complex to try to draw worthless little analogies (like the one I just tried). Still, I honestly do thank you who have the energy to keep up these threads. There are always good points to make on both sides. Just because the ones doing most of the talking never seem to be convinced by the other side, such open discussions ultimately tend to help balance the views of the rest of us.


  • D8TA
    if the "name callers" are ignorant, what does that make you, considering the quantity of personal attacks youve tossed around on this thread alone?

    Have I ever denied my arrogance and hypocrisy? Go figure.

  • Celia


    Saddam should be overthrown, no question about that. Certainly Iraqis themselves want him out of power.... But tell me, soldier, you who know more about the army and all that, why a ground war, with all the risks ? Why not send a commando, or whatever you call these special fighters, that would find Saddam Hussein and his closest followers and generals and take them out, kill them if they must, or take them out of the country. There would maybe be 100 deaths instead of 50,000 or more... Me think Bush and his government want more than just get rid of Saddam... I don't trust Bush, I can't stand Bush for that matter.... but that's besides the point....

  • D8TA


    Why not send a commando, or whatever you call these special fighters, that would find Saddam Hussein and his closest followers and generals and take them out, kill them if they must, or take them out of the country.

    Your heart is in the right place, child of peace.

    Unfortunately, this isn't a plausible solution. Contrary to Hollywood style perceptions, this type of operation is very difficult to do, especially when Saddam Hussien and his buddies are well aware of this type of action. You have to get the special forces in, locate the objective, and neautralize and then get out. With the entire nation of Iraq on alert, and the difficulty with tracking Saddam's movements...the operation would be a greater risk for those involved, then achieving the potential outcome.

    You must also take in to account, that it just doesn't stop with Saddam. You have to locate supporters...the next in line to take the reigns of power.

    With ground troops, you can secure the country, and keep the opposition localized and contained when you reach your final objective. The unfortunate outcome in all this, is the civilian casualties that are involved.

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