TiChi,
there is reparations for those who lost their loved ones. Its called war pension. (taps playing, tear dropping)
We're all Americans....Reparations?
by Country Girl 106 Replies latest social humour
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sableindian
CrazyDrinker,
Hey! Where you get that name, Blood brother? The "Native" population did not disappear. They just ran hot after that dark skin. So much so that 85% of African Americans today are descendants of tribal Nations. Come Pow Wow with us and see for yourself. You'll find all kinds of folks getting along because we have one vision. People vision.
Oh, yeah, and food, music and a good story.
LOL
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4horsemen
Race is like politics. Unending pandering.
America is not a melting pot. More like chunks of beef stew. Each chunk has a flavor: Irish, Mexican, Jewish, African, etc.
Stop deluding yourself that race does not mean anything. If you ever wind up in prison if you're black, I doubt that the Aryan brotherhood will take you in. Or if you're white, no matter how good a guy you are Nation of Islam would not be apt to take your confession.
There is only one color that means anything. That color is cold, hard, cash. The rest is just conversation.
Regarding Lincoln. Civil war had little to due with slavery. It had more to do with economics. The cash crops of cotton and tobacco was harvested in the agrarian South, but processed in the industrial North before England paid for it.
Lincoln used race as a front for Northern public support.
Two good books:
1)Abraham Lincoln: Speeches and Writings 1859-1865. Author. Don E. Fehrenbacher
2) Lincoln: His Words and His World. Author Robert L. Polley
Excerpt from book #1 pg 636
"... I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
This statement came in the 4th debate with Senator Stephen Douglas in 1861. AFTER the civil war started.
Whoa!
Good thing for Abe there was no CNN.
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MegaDude
Sable Indian,
I really would like to know...
Do you think reparations will make a significant difference? How?
*listening*
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MegaDude
4th Horseman said:
"There is only one color that means anything. That color is cold, hard, cash. The rest is just conversation."
Boy, is that ever the truth. LOL.
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jst_me
funky derek....
my people were on this continent first. I dont buy the bs land bridge theory because that is not what I have always heard. And yes there is scientific evidence to support what I am saying. We are definitely indigenous to this continent.
heathen....
the thing here is you cant throw salt in old wounds, you have to heal them. You cannot heal them if you cannot open your eyes and heart and admit that there is residual damage caused by the evils of the past. The higher proportion of men of color in prison, of people of color in poverty, is a direct result of the psycological damage that comes with being marginilized to the fringes of society. That marginilization is so complete now that we see these people as disposable, and it is quite sad.
crazy151drinker.....
screw reparations! How about enforcing the treaties (i.e. legally binding contracts) that the US signed with Indian nations, treaties that are still being ignored or CHANGED unilaterally by the US govt to this day. Let's start with that.....can you say Cobel v Norton?
sableindian.....
I don't know about Atlanta...I would like to go but we'll see. I will be at Schimetzen though. Funny about your ceremony (or maybe not, sorry). Have you ever heard of Fort Freedom in Appalachicola??
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Crazy151drinker
You know, I was in favor of Indian gaming becuase I thought, "hey about time, screw the white man!!" but then I see all the problems is caused in the tribes and how in reality, a bunch of white guys are profiting.
-crazy (1/128th Cherokee Indian woo-hoo!!)
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ThiChi
One
There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery
Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?
Two
There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits
The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.
Three
Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them
Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?
Four
America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery
The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?
Five
The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury
The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?
Six
The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?
Seven
The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.
The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?
Eight
Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid
Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?
Nine
What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?
Ten
The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom
Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.
For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.
America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.
David Horowitz is the author of numerous books including an autobiography, Radical Son, which has been described as the first great autobiography of his generation, and which chronicles his odyssey from radical activism to the current positions he holds. Among his other books are The Politics of Bad Faith and The Art of Political War. The Art of Political War was described by White House political strategist Karl Rove as the perfect guide to winning on the political battlefield. Horowitzs latest book, Uncivil Wars, was published in January this year, and chronicles his crusade against intolerance and racial McCarthyism on college campuses last spring. Click here to read more about David -
ThiChi
""there is reparations for those who lost their loved ones. Its called war pension. (taps playing, tear dropping)"""
Not until WWl was there a program in place. Before that, the Senate had to vote on each benifit. Only the ranking officers were compensated.
And there were many in the underground that did not get Government support.
Edited by - thichi on 24 January 2003 19:34:40
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heathen
ThiChi- That's some interesting reading . I like the fact the writer tried to remain unbiased . Like I said I'm sure there are many facts about the issue that many are unaware of and haven't considered to be of importance . Of course the part about the northern soldiers being entitled to a settlement from black groups was a little over the line . The north did go to war over the slave issue but when the south started to succeed from the union really was the only constitutional reason for it . The military according to the constitution can be used to protect and preserve the republic.I will endeavor to research this topic a little further . For those who suggest I should try to rise above my ingnorance , at least I don't try to rise above anything on a stack of money I am not entitled too.