Meadow77 wrote:
John 10:35-36 -God refers to those as heirs in eternal life as gods.
WRONG! It refers to ancient judges in Israel as "gods." This is an example of how poorly Meadow77 reads what the Bible actually says.
In this same passage is where Christ A. states that he and the father are one.
Yes, and it is also where the Jews asked him if he was the Christ. They did not ask if he was God. Jesus answered: "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in my Father's name, these testify of me." (John 10:24, 25) He performed miracles in his Father's name, not in his own name. Any government agent who represents a king is not the king himself. He is ONE with the king and does the king's bidding, but he is not the king. Meadow77 is totally blind to what Jesus is really saying. Nothing will open her blind eyes, even what Jesus said later by explanation: "Holy Father, keep them in your name, the name which you have given me, that they may be one even as we are." (John 17:11)
John 5: 18 Jews accuse Christ of blasphemy
Yes, they did, but they were wrong. Jesus healed on the Sabbath and claimed to be the "Son" of God. Like Trinitarians today, the Jews back then misunderstood Jesus. In their minds, he was claiming to be God, even though he never said he was God. Meadow77 won't admit that. She blindly reads into everything, just as the hypocritical Pharisees did, that Jesus claimed to be God despite his not having done so even once.
John 5:23-Jesus again makes himself equal with God
Why does Meadow77 say this? Because she accurately understands what Jesus meant? Far from it! Jesus said, "all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father." In Meadow77's mind, that means the Son is to be honoured EQUALLY as the Father is honoured. She completely disregards the way "even as" is used in other passages. For example, "My own know me, even as the Father knows me and I know the Father." (John 10:14) To be consistent, Meadow77 would have to say that Christians know Christ no less than the Father does. According to her definition of "even as," Christians know everything about Christ just as much as the infinite mind of the Father knows Christ. She also ignores Jesus' prayer to the Father that his disciples "may be one even as we are." (John 17:11) He also asked "that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us." To be "in" God and to be "one" in the Trinitarian sense, Christians would necessarily have to be part of God. But, blindly, Meadow77 insists that being "one" means one thing in John 10 and something else in John 17.
Blasphemy to the Jews was making oneself equal with God. They state this everytime they refer to Christ and his blasphemy.
FALSE! Blasphemy was making the claim to be equal to God. Jesus never claimed that. He claimed to be the Christ or Messiah and the Son of God, nothing more. Just as the Jews lied about him, Trinitarians like Meadow77 still do today.
She also lies about the "worship" of Jesus. She rejects the knowledge that the Greek word for "worship" (proskuneo) at Matthew 28:9 is the word always used with reference to honouring men and angels. Christ is never given the "worship" (latreuo) that only God receives.
She lies too about the name Emmanuel. It simply means "God with us," a name similar to many other names that indicate something special about the relationship between God and the one so named. In Genesis 28:19 we read "And he called the name of that place Bethel." Bethel means "house of God." Since the place was named "house of God," does this mean that God lived inside this house? According to the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, "The name Immanuel could mean 'God be with us' in the sense 'God help us!'" (Vol. 2, page 686) Meadow77 is a prime example of how the Trinitarians constantly base their arguments on catch words or phrases and then quickly gloss over the details. The angel did not say concerning Jesus that "HE shall be Emmanuel." He said that "his NAME shall be Emmanuel." There is a big difference between saying "His name shall be 'God is with us'" and saying "He shall be God with us."
Pretending to know Bible terms in their original languages, Meadow77 wrote:
A man and his wife become one in spirit but this does not mean they become the same person. The word for one in Hebrew used in this passage is echod. The term echod in Hebrew does not denote absolute unity but rather composite unity.
First of all, the comparison of a husband and wife with the Trinitarian God is so ridiculous that one wonders how people can say it with a straight face. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. They are two separate entities. But the Trinity is ONE entity composed of three persons. Even after marriage a man and woman are still what they were before. They are separable while the members of the Trinity are inseparable. Anyone who claims to see a resemblance is either just plain stupid or is out to deceive and mislead.
Secondly, in most instances the Hebrew word echod does indeed denote a solitary or "absolute unity." It is a bold-faced lie to deny that fact. Abraham is called echod in Isaiah 51:2. Does that make him a trinity? Many other examples could be given.
For another example we could use Numbers 13. Here echod is used when referring to a cluster of grapes. Only one stem of grapes is represented, but we know that there are many grapes on one cluster. Hence the use of echod. Where else do we see echod? Deut 6:4 The Lord our God is one(echod) Lord. HHMMMMM
The text actually states: "Then they came to the valley of Eshcol and from there cut down a branch with a single cluster of grapes; and they carried it on a pole between two men, with some of the pomegranates and the figs." Which is the echod, Meadow77? Is it the grapes or the cluster? The CLUSTER is obviously meant, but as the saying goes, "You can't see the forest for the trees."
Regardless of interpretation the fact that Jesus was the word is not disputable. Your attempt to change Jesus from the word to words is weak.
Why is it weak? Simply because you say so? John 1:14 says the word "was made" or "became" flesh. Just as the same word of God became a book that we know as the Bible, God could just as easily have made that same word into a flesh and blood person. That is what the "word" became, something it was not before it became "flesh."
John 1:1 states, according to the popular NASB: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Now give that the Trinitarian twist: "In the beginning was Christ, and Christ was with God, and Christ was God." If Christ was with God (the Trinity), he could not have been God (the Trinity). There might be some evidence for the pagan doctrine if John had said something like "the Word was with the Father, and the Word was God." But John doesn't say anything like that.
We are not to limit Gods existence to our human reasoning powers.
The answer from Jesus and all other biblical non-Trinitarians: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we KNOW." (John 4:22) "This is eternal life, that they may KNOW you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
Jehovah gives his glory to no-one Isaiah 42:8, 48:11. Now read John 17:5. Does God contradict himself?
The Bible DOES contradict itself when it's read as Meadow77 reads it. She should read the context in Isaiah, and note that Jehovah is making a contrast between himself and all FALSE gods and idols. Jesus RECEIVES glory from God. He is EXALTED in order to receive it. But this is something temporary. Jesus will someday hand back to God some of what has been GIVEN to him "when he hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when he has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For he has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that he is excepted who put all things in subjection to him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
While on earth he did not give up his deity.
Where is the text that says he had deity while on the earth?
When Jesus says that the Father is greater than him, he is correct.
Yes, he was correct. He was not God. He was a man. If he was God in any way or fashion, he would not have been lesser than the Father in any way, according to the requirements of the false, pagan Trinity doctrine.
The angels are never said to have been created in Gods image, only man.
Then how did angels make their appearance - as women, as animals, as UFO aliens? Be sensible!
We are told that He created man in his image. The only sense this passage makes is if he is speaking to someone who is already co-eternal with him.
Meaning what? That each of us is a trinity? If that makes sense to Meadow77, little wonder she doesn't understand the Bible and has accepted a pagan deity that was invented and created by men.
It is odd that you would admit that the Holy Spirit is an extension of himself, but God. Are you a completely separate person from your spirit?
Does Meadow77 have any idea what "extension" means? Her arm is an extension of herself. Does that mean her arm is "completely separate" from her as a person? In the same way, the Bible clearly shows that the Holy Spirit is an extension of God. It is called his hands and his fingers, for example, when we compare texts like Psalms 33:6 and 104:30 with texts like Psalms 8:3, 6; 19:1; 102:25; Romans 1:20 and Hebrews 1:10.
Clearly the Spirit has a personality, you can deny this but the scriptures make it plain. Acts 5:3-4 Acts 13:2-4 Acts 21:10-11
It isn't unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. Wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Romans 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matthew 10:19, 20). Compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11. At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to bear witness.
Meadow77 would like to teach others what the Bible says about God. She should first learn to read the Bible correctly and not lie about what she has read.
