Sometimes I Am Ashamed (page 8)

DakotaRed

Perhaps I am just not that smart but an intelligent study about the nature of witches seems to pose no problem for me. This is after all a discussion forum.

I think a discussion about witchcraft and JWs or even a discussion about explicit material would be within the requests of Simon. Much like we are currently doing. Sharing ideas isn't always offensive, expect of course to those who cannot tolerate anothers viewpoint.

Discussing Wicca with a lady that belonged to it opened my eyes about the religion. No, I am not going to join it, but they ae not the evil looking crones with warts on their noses that they have been depicted as. Seems I even remember someone once saying that the Bibles mention of witches was actually a mistranslation, but I would have to research it again to be sure.

animal

My turn.....

I dont believe I can offend anyone, nor can anyone offend me. Being offended is an emotion that only I control, no one else. Like hate, love, or any of the others, it is not controlable by anyone but me. That said, I dont feel any of the boobies thread could be offensive to anyone that didnt let it be, or want it to be.

One thing I did notice, bigtime, was the pride of some of the posters. It is my guess that many of them, after leaving the F'd up JW's, had little or no esteem (self worth). That thread lifted a few, mostly womens, worth in themselves quite a bit. I watched it happen, it was cool.

Valis and Naebs have the most points so far, in my own tally of the score. Without guidelines, where are the limits? And, who defines "proper" or "acceptable"?

OK, back at it... I like to watch a good debate.

Animal

Incense_and_Peppermints

hi dutchie. i don't know what thread you're talking about, so i can't comment specifically on that. but i will say this: that freedom of expression isn't immoral. and we are not responsible for the feelings of any witnesses who may come here. they are surfing the web, and believe me. there's far, far worse stuff out there than anything ever posted here. i have read things that annoy me, like some of the comments by active witnesses preaching to posters; oh well. and the thread with the uglypeople.com was not to my taste, because those poor people can't help their ugliness. but it's not for me to say what's right and what's wrong here, that's Simon's job and he polices this place well, and i respect his judgement. if i don't like something said, i ignore it, plain and simple. we aren't responsible for protecting their tender little feelings. i don't think they come seeking spiritual answers - they come out of curiousity, or to see what the evil apostates are up to, or to see if they can bust one of their own 'spiritually weak' members, or whatever. if they see something upsetting to them, so what? i did see one pic of someone's lovely derierre, and you know what i was going to put in my reply post? i was going to put a quote from lunchlady doris from the simpsons: "it's rich in bunly goodness". was that the thread? i thought it was pretty tame, i mean, they didn't show a penis or pubic shot or any sexual act. i wasn't offended, and because i'm not offended doesn't mean i am immoral or engage in debauchery, or am trying to rebel, or reclaim a life denied as a witness. i like this place because of the free speech aspect of it. and we all seem adult enough to be able to weather the disagreements, and flirtations, and misunderstandings that may come from participating in this forum. the jw's have plenty of forums of their own, and they lock us out of those. we don't lock them out! they are free to come and read and comment, and the small price they might have to pay is getting offended once in a while, so what? and i appreciate your comments, really. please don't think i get personal when i comment - i am only commenting on the thoughts posted, not you.

and hey - to any witnesses who may be reading these posts and getting offended, i personally don't give a crap. don't read my posts then! remember, if you play with fire, you will get burned.

signed,
~free from censorship, shame, jw mores, and religious tyranny. woo-HOO.

Edited by - Incense_and_Peppermints on 15 June 2002 23:0:13

Edited by - Incense_and_Peppermints on 15 June 2002 23:7:16

OUTLAW

Hey Dutchie,I hate to break it to you,but witches get naked,or so I`m told.(LOL)I love naked witch`s,just as long as their a good witch,and their real pretty!..LOL...OUTLAW

Edited by - OUTLAW on 15 June 2002 23:6:40

Dutchie

Hi Insence, I appreciate your comments and I agree with you that freedom of expression is not immoral. However, I am not as jaded as you are when it comes to my responsibility to other people. I think we all have a responsibility to one another. I don't want to offend you in any way and I would like that same courtesy from you. Are we are brother's keeper? That in the age old question? We live in a time when total freedom is looked upon as being enlightened, as being modern. However, because I feel responsible to my neighbors and my friends I sometimes refrain from doing everything I might want to do. But that's just me.

Dutchie

Do they Outlaw. Well, I have never seen a witch, naked or otherwise! But I'll take your word for it!

Dutchie

Animal, your opinion are prejudiced in favor of Naeblis and Valis and so can't be included in the count. LOL

larc

Incense,

Freedom of expression is immoral. It is immoral to hell fire in a crowded theatre which causes a panic and a lose of life. It is immoral to falsely accuse someone of a crime. It is called defamation of character and is grounds for a law suit. It is immoral to use language that will injure an emotionaly disturbed person. Also, I might add that your depiction of the JWs who come here is a stereotype. You left out those who come here like most who have remained who wanted help, and were lucky enough to come here when the atmosphere did not offend them and drive them away.

larc

Incense, I forgot to add, where I live, posting child pornography on the internet is considered both immoral and illegal, another freedom of expression that is not tolerated.

beckyboop

Valis,

I have to tell you how much we (bodhibear & I) have been enjoying your response to this particular thread. It's nice to read an ex-jw who can THINK for himself, without the fetters of a jw background or other cultural biases we may have been raised with. And I'm of the "been out 4 years and understand freedom of intellect" class too! (had to borrow that one) Isn't it great?;)

Dutchie,

I agree with Marilyn that you are just expressing your opinion, and that is the point of this forum. However, I disagree with your original post of this topic. You said, "Simply because you are no longer jw's does that mean that you flaunt all moral authority and engage in any perverted pleasure that you have a mind to?" Who, what, when, why, and where "flaunted all moral authority"? And where is the "perverted pleasure"? Somehow I missed that part!

If I recall, the original thread that started this discussion was called "The New Picture Thread--Boobies Welcome". With a title like that, ANYONE who clicked on it would have expected to see boobies. I'm sorry, but that in no way classifies as flaunting authority and perverted pleasures. It's a part of the human body, and there's nothing wrong with admiring all shapes and sizes. I think it's a huge step forward to be able to recognize the human form as the art that it is.

As far as things getting "out of control", as even Simon mentioned, how come it takes him 47 pages of a thread with the words 'boobies welcome' before he closes it, and that ONLY after we (finally!) see some men's naked butts? IMHO, that smacks of sexism, but of course as has been pounded in to us--it is his board. But, he let it go on for 47 pages, for over 2 weeks. Does that sound realistically like it's finally gone "too far"? And while I'm on the subject, have you even read the posts or seen the pics? They were quite tastefully done--my personal faves are PA's beautiful pic, and Valis'--his is self-explanatory.

This does seem to go back to what you view as "moral", compared to others. And that's fine, we are each developing our sense of morality as different from the borg. But let me ask you this, if you had not been raised with jw teachings and our own country's views on healthy sex and the naked body, how would/could you have viewed that whole thread differently?

It seems like YOUR "morals" are easily used to pass judgement on others. This is what you said: "If you believe that the organization has so repressed your sexuality that in order to redeem yourselves you must act out in a COMMON & DEGRADING way, then that of course is your choice." (bold print mine) Who are you calling "common and degrading"? Those of us who chose to post a pic or a comment about naked boobies and butts? Our Oxford Dictionary defines "degrade" as : 1. reduce to a lower rank, esp. as a punishment and 2. bring into dishonor or contempt. I wholeheartedly disagree!!! There is absolutely nothing dishonorable or contemptuous about the body. I truly hope you don't really believe that on the inside--life is much better when we can each think of ourselves in a more positive way.

The pictures that were posted were by no means sexually explicit, and if you or anyone thinks that way, I feel sorry for you the day you see "real" sexually explicit photos. And I just read your most recent post, and you stated that it was the "asses and naked pictures" that disturbed you. Why? Why do you feel like that? Do you mind my asking that? I'm really curious to hear your response, because I too used to feel like you in some ways. FYI, WE ALL WERE repressed sexually--if not by the jw's then by our own puritanical background of the good old USA. We have NEVER been taught healthy views regarding sex, the body, it's functions etc. So yes, it does affect us, but some of us are choosing to accept and live by a totally different viewpoint--our own.

Becky

The thread that started all of this is entitled "the new picture thread, boobies welcome". Nobody could go to that thread and NOT know what it was about.

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

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