900 Top Scientists Sign Statement Skeptical of Macro-Evolution

by Perry 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    The Flat Earth Society, which for most of my life was based in Margate in Kent, continues now only on-line I believe. They disputed the photographs taken from spacecraft for many a long year.

    Just goes to show that some people will only believe what they want to believe, the evidence simply does not matter, it must be wrong, or false, according to them.

    I think Perry is of that ilk, and too, he is verging on becoming a Troll, he pops in with some preposterous rubbish, but does not stay around to defend his position, or even to humbly say "I was wrong".

    Nope, he is off for while, and then pops back to post some more bilge he has found in the National Enquirer.

    I am with Caedes, the Parrot is the brains, and more than likely more principled too.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Perry, read ALL OF Dr. James M. Tour's thoughts here: http://www.jmtour.com/personal-topics/the-scientist-and-his-%E2%80%9Ctheory%E2%80%9D-and-the-christian-creationist-and-his-%E2%80%9Cscience%E2%80%9D/

    I will highlight for you. And when I say "highlight," I must extract a huge portion as Dr. Tour asks that people who quote him be fair about it.:

    ...I am a layman on the subject. Although I have read about a half dozen books on the debate, maybe a dozen, and though I can speak authoritatively on complex chemical synthesis, I am not qualified to enter the public discussion on evolution vs. creation. So please don’t ask me to be the speaker or debater at your event, and think carefully about asking me for an interview because I will probably not give you the profound quotations that you seek. You are of course free to quote me from what is written here, but do me the kindness of placing my statements in a fair context.

    I have been labeled as an Intelligent Design (ID) proponent. I am not. I do not know how to use science to prove intelligent design although some others might. I am sympathetic to the arguments on the matter and I find some of them intriguing, but the scientific proof is not there, in my opinion. So I prefer to be free of that ID label.

    Where does Jim Tour stand on the evolution vs. creation debate? I do have scientific problems understanding macroevolution as it is usually presented. I simply can not accept it as unreservedly as many of my scientist colleagues do, although I sincerely respect them as scientists. Some of them seem to have little trouble embracing many of evolution’s proposals based upon (or in spite of) archeological, mathematical, biochemical and astrophysical suggestions and evidence, and yet few are experts in all of those areas, or even just two of them.

    Likewise, I do not well-understand the stance of many of my creationist friends regarding their scientific evidence for creation or intelligent design, but they seem to be quite comfortable in most respects with the natural and historical suggestions for its claims. I am happy for them, but I hope that their position does not cause them to trump brotherly love or charity in thought or words. When they write on these topics, they are too quick to cite each other or to refer to 40-year-old studies, and slow to consider the newer findings in the mainstream scientific literature. The scientist is not the creationist’s enemy, and most scientists are quite sincere in producing research that is accurate to the best of today’s measurement abilities. For example, the gross dismissing of radiometric dating experiments that use even multiple corroborating nuclei, not by a mere 20% or even 100%, but by 4-5 orders of magnitude, based on antiquated “scientific” arguments, is unscientific and unfair. Moreover, to simply suggest that “God made it look older than it really is” is also unreasonable. With what else is God deceiving us? The virgin birth, the crucifixion or the resurrection, perhaps? Never. God is not in the business of deception, but in causing man to seek so that he could find. And my creationist friends need some thoughtful explanations for their children because, in my experience, young college-aged people seek truth, and if you threaten them, try to brow-beat them, or show them a select set of cloistered “scientific” data, they’ll smell hypocrisy, and sooner or later in life, reject it altogether.

    What a comfort it must be to be pleasantly settled in one camp or the other, but I can not be so settled, and hence I have few tent-fellows. Based upon my faith in the Scriptures, I do believe (yes, faith and belief go beyond scientific evidence for this scientist) that God created the heavens and the earth and all that dwell therein, including a man named Adam and a woman named Eve. As for many of the details and the time-spans, I personally become less clear. Some may ask, What’s “less clear” about the text that reads, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth”? That is a fair question, and I wish I had an answer that would satisfy them. But I do not because I remain less clear.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Island Man - "I came to see the false reasoning and dishonesty in the arguments of creationist sources."

    That realization alone was a huge factor in changing my mind.

    x

    I'd always felt that intellectual integrity was more important than ideology (even when I didn't know what those words meant, LOL), so learning that creationists - including the WTS - purposely used semantic gymnastics, flawed reasoning, and biased sources in their attempts to discredit evolution inevitably led me to only one possible conclusion...

    ...if the only way they can refute evolution is by using "dirty-lawyer" tactics, then by that logic, the evidence for evolution must be far more compelling than they let on.

    A conclusion which, in turn, enabled me to give myself permission to examine that evidence for myself, and endeaver to do so in an unbiased manner.

    x

    That conclusion has also directly, well... evolved into one of my favorite phrases:

    "If you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended."

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Perry, please just answer an honest and simple question;

    Would you abandon your cherished beliefs if clear evidence contradicted them?

    Nic'

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    If biological evolution didn't occur then why do we see species today with obvious signs of biological evolution in their appearance ?

    Biological evolution is apparent in living species today.

    .

    Thats unarguably the physical evidence thats before us.

    Now if creationists would provide some physical evidence to the Gods or supernatural spirit forces that they say created all things on earth

    I would clearly like to see this

    How about it Perry ???

  • prologos
    prologos

    Our Understanding of the mechanism of Evolution, a process that left its marks on Nature, might be compared to our work with gravity. We deal with it successfully, but why matter has mass H.Boson, how mass, effects space-time, gravitons? are still researched. so,

    even the specialists in evolutionary research mus realize that the CERTAINTY about the evidence is just that, and the real goodies are still to come and just like the results from CERN, it all came as a package through the big bang , the beginning.

    The process of Evolution, happening even as we speak is just a tool used to ariive at the ALL.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    I believe in a first cause for the origin of life.

    I believe that each life form reproduces according to its kind.

    I believe that macro-evolution is possible and allows for variation within each species.

    If we came from apes, then what are apes still doing in zoos?

    If new facts came to light that proved the origin of life had no cause, I would be willing to change my beliefs, but until you provide me with positive proof and a preponderance of evidence that the universe came about by accident, I will believe in a first cause.

    You don't have to be religious to believe in a Creator. Someone born in an atheist household might one day ask how the universe came to be - and then they go looking for answers in religion.

    I have to question some who are so insistent that evolution is the answer to everything.

    Would it be so bad to consider the possibility of a God(s)?

    Truthseeker

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    I believe in a first cause for the origin of life.

    That's nice.

    I believe that each life form reproduces according to its kind.

    Define 'kind'.

    I believe that macro-evolution is possible and allows for variation within each species.

    What's the difference between macro and micro evolution?

    If we came from apes, then what are apes still doing in zoos?

    You must be joking.

    If new facts came to light that proved the origin of life had no cause, I would be willing to change my beliefs, but until you provide me with positive proof and a preponderance of evidence that the universe came about by accident, I will believe in a first cause.

    Even though you have NO 'positive proof [or] a preponderance of evidence' for a first cause creator.

    You don't have to be religious to believe in a Creator. Someone born in an atheist household might one day ask how the universe came to be - and then they go looking for answers in religion.

    True enough, but some questions HAVE been answered.

    I have to question some who are so insistent that evolution is the answer to everything.

    Evolution is the answer to some specific and important questions - it's usually religion that claims to answer questions about the origin and meaning of life, not evolution.

    Would it be so bad to consider the possibility of a God(s)?

    No. Done it, lived it, questioned it, dismissed it.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Nicolau,

    It's more complicated than just simple questions.

    For instance, I believe that man is older than the Biblical Adam. That puts me at odds with belief that Adam was the first man.

    So despite my differences in theological doctrine, I do believe in a divine presence. I'm just not sure what it is.

    The reason I believe is more complicated than a "how did we get here" question. It has to do with my own personal experiences.

    Truthseeker

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Okay, you seem like a genuine guy and your username is a positive one. What I struggle with is a refusal on the part of some (like Perry) to look at evidence fairly and accept it where it is established.

    I don't mean to be rude but your personal experiences are not evidence. I'm sure they are important to you but you must see that we cannot trust subjective perceptions when trying to establish the truth of a matter.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit