Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry 114 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry
    Perry

    Thank you VH.

    Yadda,

    If not true, for what purpose would a bunch of fisherman want to ruin their lives with their friends, realtives and family and then face Roman execution?

    Article

    Excerpt:

    Isn’t it possible that the gospel writers fabricated details to make it appear that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic passages of the Old Testament? For example, one passage foreshadows that the Messiah’s bones would remain unbroken (see Psalm 34:20), so maybe John invented the story about the Romans breaking the legs of the two thieves being crucified with Jesus and not breaking his legs (see John 19:31–36). Another prophecy talks about Judas’ betrayal for 30 pieces of silver (prophesied in Zechariah 11:12–13 and fulfilled in Matthew 26:15; 27:3–7). Could it be that Matthew played fast and loose with the facts and said, yeah, Judas sold out Jesus for that same amount?

    Pastor Louis Lapides has spent 30 years studying prophecies found within Scripture. He quickly settles these objections: “In God’s wisdom, he created checks and balances both inside and outside the Christian community. When the Gospels were being circulated, there were people living who had been around when all these things happened. Someone would have said to Matthew, ‘You know it didn’t happen that way. We’re trying to communicate a life of righteousness and truth, so don’t taint it with a lie.’”

    Why would Matthew have fabricated fulfilled prophecies and then have been willing to be put to death for following someone who he secretly knew was really not the Messiah? That wouldn’t make any sense. What’s more, the Jewish community would have jumped on any opportunity to discredit the Gospels by pointing out falsehoods. “They would have said, ‘I was there, and Jesus’ bones were broken by the Romans during the crucifixion,’” Lapides says. “And even though the Jewish Talmud refers to Jesus in derogatory ways, it never once makes the claim that the fulfillment of prophecies was falsified. Not one time.”

    Some really good treatment of source material is also found here

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear designs...

    while it is true that a christian will look at the OT and see Jesus, going to jewish sources to get the right interpretation has its drawbacks. One being that jewish sources are obviously biased in favor of not finding Jesus in the OT text and another being as is stated in the OT the jewish people are presently under Gods judgement for their unbelief. The NT informs us that that judgement is His blinding their eyes once they had seen Him and decided Jesus wasn't their Messiah. God did the same thing to pharaoh, he hardened his own heart up until a point and then God let him have his way and made it impossible for him to change his mind...God hardened his heart. (The same "fate" awaits those who turn from the NT scriptures and teach their own thing, God cuts them lose to follow the delusion making it impossible for them to return...Paul called it turning them over to satan)

    the last OT book written is malachi, it talks about how the priests despise the name of the Lord and how they are cursed, the people commit idolatry, rob God and doubt His character. "You have wearied the LORD with your words; yet you say, 'In what way have we wearied Him?' In that you say, 'Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them,' Or, "Where is the God of justice?'"(mal. 2:17) I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like a very good endorsement for rabbinic interpretation.

    love michelle

    p.s. I wont take this thread off course any more, Perry. :)

  • designs
    designs

    Perry- why would people ruin their lives following Jesus, or any religion for that matter, just look at the suckers that follow Trinity Broadcast or Joel Osteen.

    Melanie- here we are just trying to get to historical and religious points of view. You are essentially siding with Paul and his argument that God blinded the Jews from seeing his new brilliant understanding. See how that works. Paul was the one who went off on a tangent but he blames the Jews for not believing his new idea. He even pulls the old canard "Christ killers' out of the hat in Corinthians just to make sure he gave his former religion some real life grief.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    designs...

    I gave you an earful in a pm ;)

    xo

  • designs
    designs

    Michelle- sent you a response.

    The history of all these claimants tells us who lived up to what.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Hundreds of fulfilled prophecies are not something that can be made up on the fly, we don't live long enough to pull something like that off.

    Not one Biblical prophecy can be shown to have come true, specficially and exactly as predicted.

    See http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/284484/1/Biblical-Prohecies-That-Came-True for help on that.

  • designs
    designs

    When Jesus said, or reported to have said, 'your house is abandoned to you' it shows he was not the Messiah of Judaism.

  • kaik
    kaik

    myelanie, designs is correct on that that Messiah in Judaism is not represented by Jesus. Jesus was not Mesiah, because he did not fullfill any prophecies what would be expected from king of peace. Judaism does not teach salvation through another person, nobody can redeem your sin. It is only yours own responsiblity to have a good standing with G-d. Salvation is achieved through obedience to Torah, love of G-D, and work on yourself to achieve it. No shortcut on someone else back. Did Jesus in his time fullfill any of these: Became a king of Israel, returned Jewish people to Isreal (in time where majority lived outside Judea), rebuild temple in Jerusalem, bring peace to the world? Jesus was anointed by woman, not by prophet as did Samuel in the past. Jesus was false prophet, and he died and he is not comming back.

    Paul deliberately created split between Judaism and Christianity by his own will by invalidating Torah and making G-d given commands obsolote. He knew he would face a justice in Jerusalem for it and rather run under protection of Nero than defend his truth in the jury of his fellow Jews.

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups

    Oh! This is the Yahweh-is-3-Gods-but-not-really thread! Cool!

    Tell me more about that omnipresent baptism of good ole Yeshua! God descended up on himself, approved himself and presented himself to himself to do his own will. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING !!! WOOOOO HOOOOO !!!

    Jesus, the failed apocolyptic prophet, that prayed to himself and sacrificed himself to himself.

    LISTEN TO THIS BOYS: "THERE'S GOING TO BE WARS AND ... GET THIS: REPORTS OF WARS!" CALL ME CRAY CRAY, BUT I'M THE PROPHET WITH THE MOSTEST!

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Hi, Perry,

    That's interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. I am not a believer but respect your sincerity.

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