Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry 114 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Chris Tann
    Chris Tann

    Daniel 9:26- messiah cut off.

    Isaiah 53:5,8-10- servant taken from land of living

    Matthew 23:37- Jesus wanted to welcome all Jews, the majority did not want him.

    Luke 21:24- because of the leaders and majority rejected Jesus, Jerusalem would be trampled on by nation's,which it has been. Then he says UNTIL the appointed time of the nation's are fulfilled. This implies a restoring of Jerusalem to the Jews only after this appointed time.

    Malachi 4:1- Last Hebrew prophet tells of a time coming, burning like a furnace, wicked ones burned like stubble. This happened in 70 c.e.

    1 Peter 1:1-Peter is writing to Jews of the Diaspora; the Jewish remnants of those scattered from the Babylonian exile. It was because of Jesus that these Jews were gathered back to God through the Good News. This was foretold in Jewish scriptures.

  • designs
    designs

    Chris, you are reinterpreting the Jew's Bible from a Protestant slant, does not work.

  • Chris Tann
    Chris Tann

    Before Jesus, this is how Jewish teachers interpreted these scriptures.

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Jesus started out as a man in Mark and ended as God in John and Revelation, but WAIT... he really never said I am GOD, just hints and subtle comments.

  • designs
    designs

    Chris- No, Rabbis interpret the Servant in Isaiah to be the Jewish people. The story begins in chapter 44.

    Jesus of Nazareth did not bring in the Age of Peace that the Jews expected. In fact under Christians we have seen 18 of the bloodiest centuries in human history.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Chris- No, Rabbis interpret the Servant in Isaiah to be the Jewish people.

    That's somewhat like saying that drowned people don't get haircuts anymore. They don't because they are no longer alive. It is simply a statement of the obvious. Countless Jews have become Christian from reading and BELIEVING.

    The ones that view the Servant as Jesus are now Christians, not Rabbis.

    Is. 53:

    He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
    Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

    4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
    yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.

    5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.

    6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
    and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
    he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.

    8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
    For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
    9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
    though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet it was the Lord ’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
    he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

    11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied
    by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.

    And in Zech. 13:6 the Jews that are left over after the battle of Armageddon will once again be able to approach Jesus and say:

    And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; ....and one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

    He's coming back to finish what he started as sure are the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Getting back to the topic......

    Among the clearest texts in the Bible that show that Christ was both man and God is 1 Timothy 3:16. The Authorised Version translated this as:

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    1 Timothy 3:16 as cited by Church Fathers

    Article

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Why is the NWT not including God was manifest in the flesh? Was this also added later?

  • DogGone
    DogGone

    Perry, you

    What do you say to the critique about your wild claim that Cyprian must have had access to the autographs of "John's" epistles? I'd say that is a pretty outrageous statement.

    It is, I agree, evidence FOR the inclusion of the Comma Johanneum. This must be compared to the all the evidence AGAINST including it. It certainly doesn't argue that "it must be a valid reading". Goodness, if all textual criticism could be resolved so neatly we could fold up whole schools of scholarly inquiry!

    On 1 Tim 3:16 - it does not say "God was manifest in the flesh". Look at an interlinear. That is a theologically biased translation where the subject is assumed for the reader - as bad as the NWT's throwing in [other] at will.

  • Perry
    Perry

    The quote about Cyprian is from the source I quoted, not from me. Yet still, at only 100 to 150 years out from the original autographs, it would have been hard for him to introduce such a thing unchallenged. There are no records of such a critique. Access to the original was certainly possible at that time.

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