Topics I’ve Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION 109 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Finkelstein

    JWINQUESTION says ... I'm basing morality on the bible itself.

    If that is so then the murdering of innocent children by Yahweh the god of the ancient Hebrews, rape and slavery promoted

    by this ancient civilization constitutes practical morality ?

    The stoning to death of people who opposed the direction of the high priests (seers) .... etc.

    The stoning to death of children who persistently dishonored their parents. ..... etc.


    Yes that civilization certainly had high moral standards, therefore it would beneficial for all of humanity to emulate those moral standards of that

    select ancient civilization.


    There is of course some good practical social postulations in the bible concerning loving and honoring one

    and another, to be sure.

    The containing amount of human ignorance of that civilization, much like the many other civilizations of that time,

    shows quite an oppositional difference of what is accepted in today's modern sociological awareness. (morality)


    @ Viviane

    Of course for me, it is not okay to murder people, beat up people or for terrorist driving planes into towers. I just want to get as much people's thoughts and inputs to the questions I address and how they come to that conclusions. Like I said I'm learning a lot and starting to see many perspectives that I didn't once every really consider. I'm trying to be as nice and tactful as I can when I write my post. I've thanked you for your the contribution that you've made to my thread as well as it got me thinking.

    I'm being open to a community that I once thought was wrong to get answers from. I'll be honest, I'm not very intellectual when conveying my thoughts so everyone please be patient with me. This is all very new to me.

  • love2Bworldly

    Welcome JWinquestion-- don't lump everyone in the same category. You are a free human agent able to live your life any way you choose. You can choose to be a Christian and have clean morals & speech & no one on this Board should judge you for that.

    Be open minded & do a lot of research before you decide what you want to do. A lot of people who post here have been very damaged emotionally by the JW religion and that's why you will see every type of person on here who all deal with their emotional hurts in different ways.

    I don't think gays suffer any more than heterosexuals as far as std's, anyone who has sex with another person without using a condom is in danger of catching a disease even if they are married since married people can stray or may have had other sexual partners in the past. AIDS is not just a homosexual disease either.

    Hope you enjoy your stay on the forum.

  • Viviane

    I addressed that I'm just asking questions and spurring out thoughts that needs to come out. Of course for me, it is not okay to murder people, beat up people or for terrorist driving planes into towers.

    OK. How is any of that like being gay?

    It's good that you are seeing many perspectives and thinking. I would suggest you listen to the perspectives you hear and try to reconcile that with "Who is this hurting? Why should I care? Does this make the world a better or worse place? Why do I think that?"

    Start to understand why you are hearing certain opinions and perspectives. Think a little deeper.

  • love2Bworldly

    SeparationofPowers made me stop & realize something-- even though I don't go to church or have an active belief in God, curse when I want, and have totally changed my views on gays & sex without marriage, I am way more Christ-like than when I was a JW. I am way more caring, empathetic & loving toward other human beings & way less judgemental & negative toward other people.

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    JWinQuestion: I brought out earlier how I read an article how gay partners are 17 times more likely to get an STD. The thought in my head of gay people dying because of increasing STDS due to their sexual lifestyle saddens me. That is why I don't condone the practice.

    There have been many good comments already but one that may have been missed is this. Your "gay partners are 17 times more likely to get an STD" doesn't ring true. I might buy it if you were talking MEN since there is usually penetration involved. How about gay women where there is no penetration? See my point? Does this mean that men are unfairly targeted because they were born a male -- and that gay women are blessed simply because they were born a female?

    I am a 73 year old heterosexual but began to question the society's (and most fundamental Christianity) harsh postion against gays when I was newly baptized at age 16. Dad and Mom had already been baptized a few years and Dad had become quite staunch about homosexuality. My uncle Leo, a homosexual, had arrived in our cityfor a visit and phoned Mom to extend his greetings and asked he we were home so he could come over. I could tell that Mama was excited that she would be seeing her brother for the first time in a long while. Not the case with Dad -- "he won't be allowed to set foot in this house if I have anything to say about it!"

    I don't remember the argument that ensued cuz I stepped outside -- I hated their fighting. I do remember that Mama got her way as Uncle Leo showed up and was invited inside for a good visit.

    I'll never forget the hate-filled and cruel position that Dad had adopted thanks to Watchtower teachings. I thought to myself, "are we supposed to interrogate every person that comes to our doorstep and only if they satisfy our moral standards -- then invite them inside?" Of course not, so why pick on family -- an uncle who was quite well-to-do his entire life, but simply had a different sexual lifestyle? At his death he had lived some 60 years in a monogomous relationship with "uncle" Jerry and had almost single-handedly financially supported his mother (my grandmother) from long-distance. This was before the days of our current welfare programs.


    DATA-DOG shit!!! I am probably one of the worst cussers, but only when I'm ranting. I am a born-in JW and was told that cursing is for persons with a poor vocabulary. I try not to use "bad" words just for the sake of using them. But a good curse word here and there can really help convey a particular feeling when other words just cannot. No offense, but people use curse words in the real world.

    Also, please, please, please read this post and HONESTLY think about it. Yes, you will find sarcasm and some biting comments from various members ( like in the Bible ), but it's for a good reason. Hyperbole can be an excellent teaching method.


  • Finkelstein

    Crass vulgarity comes from many languages, to purpose the suggestion that people who aren't religious

    swear without control or concern is being blandly dishonest or simply trying create a pretentious image

    of self righteous purity.


  • Syme


    Are you really comparing the private sexual preferences of 2 people with the act of murder and cannibalism?

    Do you understand what you're doing?

    This is extreme homophobia and racism, to say the least.

    I'm sure the moderator of this forum does not allow room for such extreme projection of hatred on the basis of sexual orientation here.

  • Apognophos

    I totally get what JWINQUESTION is saying. He's saying that homosexuality in animals does not mean it is okay in humans because we don't base our morals on animal behavior. Then he simply gave examples of things animals do that we would not approve of in human society. I think it's a fair reasoning point.

    All I can directly say in response to that is that the point being made is that if God created everything, then he created animals with the capacity to be gay, and we see that humans seem to have the same capacity. So either God instilled something in some people that he doesn't approve of, which makes their lives extremely difficult if they want to live up to his standards, or God really doesn't care if people are gay anymore than he cares about gay horses.

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