Embarrassed by Aggressive Apostates

by ShempLives 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    A segment is troublesome. There was a petition drive to no authority. The White House will reply (not satisfy) to petitions of a certain size. I visited the site and most people's petitions have nothing to do with anything the WH could grant. There was a profit making aspect to the petition drive.

    Next, some apostate hero from Europe walked into Bethel in Brooklyn and asked to purchase a new new NWT. Obscenities were clearly audible on the video. All right. If I take the subway down, I can get the new NWT, too. This is not earth shattering political action. Once Outlaw outed the obscenity, no action was taken to edit the video. The person directing the video was quite scruffy and rude.

    If we could organize a moratorium against the WT, we could get publicity. Pick a date and time when former JWs will stand politely around WT sites.

    This action was impressive during the Viet Nam War. Johnson and Nixon claimed that only privileged universities opposed the war. So many people participated that they could make the claim any longer. It involved minimal participation. I was shocked by the teachers who joined the students.

  • ShempLives

    You've given me a lot to think about.

    As Sitting Straight said, I'm coming off as harsh and judgmental pointing fingers. That is probably poor form for a first posting, to criticize a minority of the XJW community. Ugh. My bad.

    But in all honesty I am appalled by some of their actions and the sense of escalation and the need to "top" each other. I have some serious misgivings about AAWA. They're putting themselves out there as spokes persons / publicists for the XJWs. I was all for giving them a chance but I think the leaders are whipping up a frenzy leading to the summer assembly. The ranting videos, childish stunts and the secrect, shadowy leadership all give me a sense that "something is not right. " I had the same feeling of dread like many had upon hearing the WT was making a new facility at WalKill--my first thought was another Jonestown or Waco, and it's a possibility. I would hate for the rabid apostates to instigate a Stonewall-type riot.

    I'm coming to the realization that there's not much anyone can do except let the Nutters run the asylum.

  • Apognophos

    Welcome ShempLives. Don't feel bad about judging anyone; it's the epitome of childishness for someone to object, "You can't judge people, that's what Watchtower does!"

    I really had an issue with the Memorial-crashing video too, specifically that he filmed the sister in their conversation at the beginning, and filmed the congregation after he stood up. He claimed he loves JWs, so why would he scare them and embarrass them?

    One of the "going too far" possibilities has already come true a while back. Are you familiar with the Danny Haszard pepper-spraying incident?

    I don't pay attention to AAWA, what do you think they're planning? Are they trying to organize an assembly protest?

  • Found Sheep
    Found Sheep

    I just don't find it effective. I would have left earlier if my first internet search didn't lead me to.... oh what's his name the one on you tube? Rick something. He scared me off for a while.

  • Simon

    Personally, I find the aggressive approach completely counter productive because a) people just don't respond to that in general and b) JWs have been specifically conditioned to expect that from ex-members and are prepared to ignore it.

    So it really does two things:

    1. stops people who may otherwise start to doubt and question things

    2. makes the person doing it feel better.

    Yes, it's cathartic and that's it's only real purpose. It also means it's rather selfish and puts people's own experiences and feelings first before the welfare of others. But that is everyone's rigbht to do, just as it is everyone else's right to question and to point out the flaws.

    The real danger is I think there is a big risk that people get sucked into being extremist and start expecting others to do the same or to applaud when they do increasingly crazy things. At some point, someone will go too far and what happens then? EVERYONE who has encouraged and cheered people on will share some responsibility. That was what the AAWA wanted, Activists, and while they may have changed the name because the old one became so tainted within weeks, the song remains the same.

    Let's not forget too that may of us have friends and family who are still in - not everyone who is a JW is a monster, they are just as much victims as any of us were, just at a different point in the journey and not woken up yet.

    When the woke Neo up in The Matrix they didn't scream in his face ...

    We don't need ex-JWs doing crazy things like pepper-spraying old people on the ministry.

    We do need people to be rational, thoughtful and considerate because THAT is how you win hearts and minds.

  • ShempLives

    Gregor: Ray Franz approach vs. Danny Haszard--that's a great comparison, I totally agree the Franz approach is more effective while Danny Haszard's style gets a lot of negative attention.

    Apognophos: The DH pepper spraying case scares me too. He could have killed those elderly JWs, Pepper spray could cause asthma attack or worse. Very serious for a senior citizen w/ health issues. I worry some people may cause a riot at an assembly or other public venue. If that happens and some hapless JW or bystander gets hurt, or made a martyr, that will handicapp the apostate movement and the JWs will feel vindicated and get a lot of sympathy from the public. I don't have any inside info on AAWA's plans, just a sick feeling that a tragic accident is likely. I hope it doesn't take a martyr to make the more aggresive XJWs reconsider their tactics.

    Fernando and finklestein: Good insights. I have to remember YT is just one community. I am glad you have this forum for people to vent, & ask questions.

    AProclaimer: Acting crazy only makes things worse, absolutely correct. especially those who act out next to JWs who are programmed to look and act "nice". I hate the phony niceness and fake smiles of the JWs . Being dramatic/crazy can be of interest to some morbid spectators but in the long run it scares away anyone who might be slowly waking up.

  • ShempLives

    snare& racket: "The turmoil and damage that causes someone to drink and cause disorder in this cult after leaving, is due to inner pain....they are so desperate to have their side heard in that KH, they did that."

    Well said, and I feel their pain & anger fueling their behavior. it's ugly/ disturbing to think that the same destructive tendencies were implanted by the WT. JWs are so programmed when they see an XJW acting out, they will think "See what happens when you leave the truth!" JWs and the public don't understand that years of WT abuses cause people to lash out.

    WT Free and 'Hades" - Love the pictures. They always make me smile.

  • apostatethunder

    My theory is that they get nervous when somebody leaves and appears well-balanced, specially if there was no scandalous fornication case involved in their leaving Noah's Ark.

    They may be only drones, but as a group they are trained to drive ex-jws to madness. For example: group stalking, impertinent questions, while a number of them start ignoring you can be a very volatile cocktail, specially after you discover TTATT.

    Also some of the apostate sites don't look genuine, they look designed to find out exactly what was that opened your eyes or to dissapoint you, specially if you are on the first stages of waking up.

    Who knows what they come up with in order to explain the cases of successful apostates who start doing great in life after leaving the spiritual hell. It would be interesting to hear. Who could be a microphone on the wall sometimes!

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    I second what FOUND SHEEP said.

    "Six Screens" ( whatever in the hell that means ) was my first internet run-in with apostates, and it lived up to all of the watchtower's propaganda.

  • rebel8

    OTOH, total silence is often viewed as consent/lack of disagreement/acquiescence. Those of us with near death experiences, serious abuse, etc. tend to NOT want anyone to be confused--we do NOT agree, we do NOT acquiesce, what they did in the past, and are now doing, is NOT ok.

    In order to reduce the size and impact of this cult, it must be socially unacceptable to participate.

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