Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more (page 5)

problemaddict

Daniel,

May I ask, why has your wife left? It does not seem she has "scriptural grounds" for leaving. Have the elders spoken to her? If so, since you are still married, make sure YOU are present. In a very male centric order such as this religion, she technically cannot meet with them without you, at your direction, and if she does and they do.......they are in trouble. Do not forget that.

If she left because she knows how you feel about some things, point out to the elders that you have never impeeded her spiritual progress, and you simply shared what was on your mind with your wife. You have been providing faithfully, you have not been abusive....on what scriptural grounds is she not being publicly reproved for abandoning her husband right now!

You need to decide what you want to do, and then go from there. Stop being so open with everyone. its the same mistake so much of us made or are making. When I had the lynch mob after me, they asked me a similar question (before it went completely off the rails), and I showed them matthew and Jesus having all authority in heaven and earth. i set it on the table, and said that is what I believe. As it went on I showed them james, and how if I go against my conscience it is a sin for me. Are they asking me to go against my conscience?

problemaddict

Oops.....hit enter too soon.

Look, your baby is more important than anything else. Living an authentic life will be very rewarding. However, if you feel at this time that they do not "deserve the truth", than go for it. But as soon as they close your case, fade away. Go very little if at all, seek out association elsewhere, make sure your wife comes home and that you are the best father you can be. 17 months? Why would sh rob you of this amazing time with your son!

I do not know your relationship with your wife, but she has no grounds to do this. Are you located in the US? UK? Latin country?

OnTheWayOut

Alrighty- I told you what I would do if I were in certain similar positions.

Someone like you might decide to just lie and tell them anything they want to hear, and deal with the son later in life. That's your choice. But fading is one thing and keeping your son out of the JW's is another thing. Good luck to you.

EndofMysteries

You can start off by asking what are the teachings? You are confused because all the teachings keep changing you don't even know what the current teachings are. You can also ask since the teachings keep changing, would it be wrong for people when the teachings were wrong to have believed them to be wrong?

You can ask if they ask something that goes against your bible conscience what should you do?

Instead of answering their questions, ask them questions. You can't answer questions like they've asked you without having all the information at hand.

Daniel1555

OnTheWayOut

Thank's for your statement what you would do. It's good advice. I told before, I will not lie and tell them anything they want to hear. I'll try to answer them in a way that they might not disfellowship me, but that I also don't betray my conscience. If that works (maybe fifty fifty chance) I'll tell them that my faith is personal and that I won't discuss anymore. I'll continue my fade (I stopped field service in December and miss more than half of the meetings). When my son is with me, he will be in a JW free zone. When he is with his mother, it's the opposite. As he gets older, I will try hard to strengthen his free thinking abilities.

Problemaddict

My wife left, because she felt that her faith is in danger living with me. She said, the only way she can be with me is, if I accept and believe "everything" as the organisation does. If I did that, I would have been a robot. I never hindered her in living her faith. I also respected her belief and never tried to force my ideas or religious feelings on her. So she had no scriptural grounds to leave. The elders met several times with us and told us, that the bible says we should stay together. I also suggested to go to a marriage counselor, but she didn't want to. We didn't part with in a provoked state or with arguments. Even though since she left, she doesn't want to communicate with me. I found out, she is frustrated, that the elders didn't df me yet. So probably she views me as an apostate and treats me like that, even though also the elders say it would be her duty to at least communicate with me about the dealings of our son and things to solve concerning our separation.

I have friends in the congregation, who also have babies the same age as my son. They like each other very much. I am afraid, if they disfellowship me, that my son can't play with them anymore. It's not easy, to just find other people with kids as friends on short notice. Of course I often go to the playgrounds and meet other mothers with their child. I hope that I can develop new friendships like that.

rebel8

Excellent idea, oppostate.

Be sure to use the words "annoyed, alarmed and harassed" to describe how you feel as a result of their contact with you. This will set the stage for arrest if they take further action.

disposable hero of hypocrisy

If there's even the tiny vaguest possibility of doubt on your part that jehovah is guiding the wts, then with all honesty you can simply answer "I'm not sure". It's an answer to their question, it's not lying, and it could buy you a lot of leeway....

ABibleStudent

Hi Daniel1555, I hope that you are able to continue to think kindly towards your wife's authentic persona. On the other hand, it sounds like it is unlikely that you would want to reconcile with your wife, because her cult persona is much stronger than her authentic persona.

Have you thought about contacting a lawyer about what your options are when you file or your wife files for divorce? I was just wondering if it was possible to show a lawyer how the WTBTS uses "undue influence" (a legal term in the USA according to Steve Hassan) over JWs and how that your son's life might be jeapardized by living with your JW wife without you being present. There seems to be a lot of information about courts ordering JWs to give children blood transfusions and that your wife left you because you said that you would not deny a blood transfusion if your son needed one.

Another option would be for you to consider telling your wife in person without any other JWs present, that she will bring reproach on the WTBTS if she does not give you full custody of your son. Print out information from several websites and links to other websites that you would submit to a court to convince a court that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult that has "unduly influenced" your wife and thus could put your son's life in jeaparday if your wife has custody of your son, and that the WTBTS teaches JWs to lie to courts. Ask your wife to review the information with her lawyer to see if the court might deny her full custody. If you are lucky, your wife might read the information herself and start to have doubts.

A last resort option would be for you to promise your wife that if she gives you full custody of your son and she does not request spousal support from you then you will help her to "be free to marry" in the eyes of the WTBTS and that you will not ask for child support from her. I know that this option sucks, but so do options that elders or other JWs may be telling your wife so that she can maintain full custody of your son.

Peace be with you and everyone, how you love,

Robert

tornapart

1) Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

Didn't Jesus say 'WHO really is the faithful and discreet slave?'..... it was a question not a statement.

2) Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

Matthew 23:8

Tell them you respect the GB as your brothers but just as Jesus said in Matthew 23:8 he is the only one we should regard as our teacher. Then ask them to read 1 Cor 3:5-9. Tell them you appreciate all the hard work they do (flatter their egos a bit) and that you appreciate all the spiritual food that comes from the GB (your brothers)... even if it sticks in your throat to say it. Say that you still have some doubts over a few things but that you know that Jehovah will make it clear to you one day, (use a few JW-isms that will make them drop their attack a little).

Daniel1555

Abiblestudent

Thanks Robert for your thoughts on custody. I will think of all options when it comes to a divorce. At the moment I have to fight with a lawyer that she grants me 2 full days every 2 weeks visitation right, as her lawyer wrote that I can only visit my son for 4 hours these 2 days. She did that, in order that she can take him to the meeting even when it's my time to visit my son. By the way I travel 1000 km. for one visit.

Tornapart

Your points are also very valuable and I will think about that approach.

Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more

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