Does anyone know if there's an elders letter outlining these two loyalty questions? If not then where are they coming from?
It from the elder book, standard questions for apostacy
Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more
by Daniel1555 73 Replies latest members private
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LisaRose
It's the thought police.
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rebel8
Say, "Rubbish. You have no power here. Begone, before somebody drops a house on you."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIJ3YqPbqg
No reply is fine. The "need" for a reply is theirs, not yours.
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OnTheWayOut
If it were just you and your wife and your JW family, hands down- LIE. Then you could back down on the blood issue thing.
But that is not your situation. Your wife separated and there is that little boy in the picture.
I can't answer your question as to what you should do, and really- nobody else here can. BUT......if I had a child involved, I would have DA'ed and done all that is possible to get him to have a normal life with interaction with normal "worldly" stuff. He'd get a birthday celebration and be unafraid of holidays.
If it were me past that point where I did not DA and already faded out, I would not have gone to the elders with any information that my wife wanted me to tell them. I would let the JW's in my son's life show their true colors to him and let them explain why they turned in Daddy. And if I was past that point and already told the elders what I feel about the blood issue for me and/or my son, I would fall back on telling them nothing more and letting the elders show their true colors. Then I could honestly tell my son why they chose to kick me out and show him examples of how their own Bible shows that life is precious and they are misusing the teachings on blood and trying to weasel out with "fractions."
But that's me.
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StephaneLaliberte
You know, considering you have a kid, I think OnTheWayOut is right: You can't lie.
I have kids and because of them, I am now inactive. I could not bear the thought of them growing up, learning about a different Christ and different good news then the ones recorded in the bible.
Luckily, I have my wife with me. However, I can tell you that if I would have had the choice you have now, I would have fought for the full custody of my kids and tell the elders the bottom of my mind – in a polite way of course – feed them their own medicine.
In court, the most obvious thing that can run in your favor is to outline the articles that describe the apostates. Explain to the court that your wife and her surrounding will teach these things about you being an Apostate. Any court that reads these articles will rule for you.
- Like “ravenous wolves,” false teachers are out to devour trusting members of the congregation, destroying their faith and leading them away from the truth (w11 7/15 p. 15 par. 4)
- Apostates too speak valueless words (w08 4/15 p. 6 par. 17)
- Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. (w09 4/15 p. 6 par. 15)
- They face destruction, as do uprooted trees. Wise we are to shun apostates. (w08 12/15 p. 29 par. 12)
- apostates who put on a mask of sincerity, and those who live a double life. (w06 5/15 p. 20 par. 3)
- apostates prey upon trusting members of the congregation, seeking to carry them away from the flock. (w04 2/15 p. 16 par. 7)
- Apostates may use smooth words, flattery, and twisted reasoning to try to defeat you. But the apostate does not have your well-being at heart. (*** w04 2/15 p. 28)
- “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light,” we are told. Likewise, his servants, including apostates, are “deceitful workers” who “also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness.” (w02 3/1 p. 11 par. 14)
I just made a simple search for “Apostates are” in the CD rom, I am sure you can find more damning quotes to choose from.
Still, there is a risk that remain: You may end up loosing anyways. Its not an easy situation, and the decision is yours to take. If you do still believe in God, now is an appropriate time to pray.
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cha ching
Lately, I have seen this 'loyalty' test used. They sound so sweet. "We just want to help you, brother"
Frankly, that is the only thing those elders cared about. Nothing about wrongs, rights or reasoning. They cannot be reasoned with. They will pressure, pressure, pressure until they get what they want, and when they don't get the words they want? they'll make them up, and DF you anyway.
I would not EVER EVER EVER 'meet' with them. EVER. They only need two witnesses to accomplish their evil deeds. And, heh, if those two "witnesses" need to change the testimony to accomplish "Jehovah's will"... they will.
IF you DO talk to any of them,
*have it be only one, not on the phone (he will have someone listening on speaker phone) ...........................................................*be so brief (and yes, lie if you want to they deserve nothing more) .......................................*tell them this is hurting your health and you cannot physically take anymore stress, you are having nightmares, or "your Doctor told you not to engage in these conversations anymore"
and never talk to them again... seriously.... very seriously
Do NOT give them control over your life, they do NOT deserve it, or have the authority. Please, please listen.
Speaking from experience.
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oppostate
Don't play their game.
Write them an email or letter saying you are getting legal counsel (me and others here, but you don't mention that).
Tell them you are withdrawing your name from the congregation and cannot conscienciously depend on them for spiritual guidance due to what you have come to perceive as their harassment and ill will towards you.
Since they are no longer your spiritual shepherds you will treat them as individuals meaning to do you harm. You will sue for damages if they seek to do you any more harm. You are not including the Watchtower nor any corporation in your consideration for a suit, unless their legal representatives get involved in this case. You are only trying to separate yourself from those who are doing you spiritual harm locally and you are in no way disassociating from the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and you retain your right to seek another congregation in which you may feel more comfortable and cared for.
If any negative statement is made to your former congregation you will see this as continued harassment and you will have no other recourse but to sue the Body of Elders for their actions against you even after you are no longer a member of the congregation they associate with.
Tell them, finally, that you want no further communication from them and will seek protection from their continued advances towards you at your residence or in any other place. Tell them to leave you and your family in peace and to desist from what you will definitely consider any further harassment. You do not want anyone from your former congregation's Body of Elders to be sent to contact you. If the Circuit Overseer or any representative from the Watchtower seeks to contact you regarding this personal matter between you and the Body of elders you will consider this enough to include them in your suit if it becomes necessary to reach these measures to stop any further harassment towards you.
No more need be said and unless they're very, very stupid they'll stop and no longer bother you.
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sarahsmile
In the organization there no such thing as freedom of speech. No one has rights to say what they believe or not! It always just believe!
You keep talking to elders about your views. blood transfusion and talking with df ones.
Now you do not want to get df/da,right? Both of the above subjects are df offenses that goes against FDS! It is a given for the elders that you do not believe that GB are the FDS or you would not go against their teachings.
Going against doctrine is an automatic not believing in the FDS.
Elders gather facts, your statements are fact prior to direct questions.
It sounds like the elders want you to admit by their questions. They are not just going to just use your answers to df you, because they got the answers. Your wife talked,elders are the witnesses. They are just messing with you.
Elders are sneaky bstards! think about it!If they wanted, you could have walked out and faded but they asked these questions because your attending.They view you as bad association yet your rubbing in their face before you leave. So at this point what you want or do not want does not matter. The damage is done.
You need to fade right now and stay away from elders. Inactive and elders are not your friends! Just my view point.
Chances are the elders will ignore it until they see you at the KH.
Focus on getting shared custody and your son's future. Get a darn good divorce attny just in case.
No court will refuse your parental rights to sign for your child to get blood if needed.
Make sure your wife can not move 5 miles away from your location. Some people neglect that and move! Re marry.
Someone always gets hurt on that one!
Good luck with the elders!
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OUTLAW
The elders give me some time to think about it. But they made it clear, that they need an answer..
.....................................WE NEED AN ANSWER!!..
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...OUTLAW -
sarahsmile
Hmmm, I used a scripture about questioning everthing.
You might be able to turn your attitude into confusion because you do not clearly understand the two doctrines.
You at the time, new father became confused about life threatening illnesses and difference between blood transfusions are(or) fractions.
Also it is very hard to ignore dfd ones and you feel very sorry for them. You do not have enough understand about dfd ones. Who does!
Elders should hand you some magazines to study and will want you to attend meetings. Meet with you about the magazine. Tell them you do not recall reading this magazine. Thank them for their help.
Do it for about six months.
Fade!
Never talk to another elder!
Never go to another JW meeting.
Do not compromise your honesty! Blood transfusion and how to treat dfd ones can be very hard to understand.
...OUTLAW