Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more

by Daniel1555 73 Replies latest members private

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  Island Man

  Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

  "Yes I believe the governing body represents the anointed remnant, the faithful and discreet slave . . . wait, no, that was changed recently . . . I know, I know, don't tell me: the faithful slave is now the governing body, that's the new truth, right? So the correct answer to your question would have to be . . . uh, could you repeat the question?"

  "Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?"

  "A quick question: You mentioned directed by Jehovah, but since Jesus is head of the congregation and Revelation describes him as having the seven stars in his hand, don't you actually mean to ask me if I believe the governing body is directed by Jesus?"

  "Well Jehovah is the head of Jesus so ultimately they're still being directed by Jehovah, but if you prefer to say Jesus - yes. Do you believe it?"

  "Um you know, coming to think of it I never gave much thought to what the governing body teaches about exactly how Jesus and/or Jehovah actually directs them. How exactly are they directed - do they hear an audible voice? Does holy spirit from heaven influence the minds of the majority of the members who vote in favor of a particular teaching but not the other members voting against? And when a previous teaching is changed does Jehovah or Jesus tell them why he changed his mind about the previous direction and give them an apology? How exactly does it work? I'm sure you will understand that I can't honestly claim to believe or disbelieve something if I don't know exactly what it is I'm supposed to believe. So when you speak of beign directed by Jehovah or Jesus, exactly how do you mean?

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  "You mean the teachings that the 8 men on the governing body set up, right? Are you asking me if I accept all their teachings, or only those that are correct and wouldn't be changed in the future. If you mean teachings that are firmly supported by scripture and not tainted by erroneous human reasoning, then yes. Surely you would agree with me that they're not infallible. And surely you'd agree with me that a true christian should only accept true teachings, right? And when you say 'set up' what exactly do you mean? Are you saying the teachings are a set up?"
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  disposable hero of hypocrisy

  Hahaaaa good work island man! That could work if you lose the sarcasm and inject sincerity.
• 

  baldeagle

  The only answer that works for these simpletons is “YES” then move on with your life. Fade as quickly as possible. You can’t negotiate or try to explain your feelings, doubts or concerns. You are not able to openly discuss or even express that a doctrinal change doesn’t make sense. These are feelings that many JW’s are having worldwide. They know that they must keep these doubts private and to themselves, or else.

  These elders are not your friends, merely doing their job. Remember how the GB railroaded Ray Franz. In time he too began to have his own doubts. He saw how the WTS had double standards on many issues. The GB interrogated him with many weasel questions. They went out of their way to gather evidence and pit one brother against another. All of Ray’s years of pioneering, sacrifice, loyalty, and faithful service did not save him. Those years he gave up meant nothing. He never existed. He was of no use to them.

  Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed.
• 

  Daniel1555

  Hi Friends

  Thanks for all your comments and sympathy.

  Lost Generation: "Could it be your wife has pressured them to try to get you officially DFd?"

  I heard from my wifes best friend, that she was frustrated because the elders didn't df me. I think if I am df'd, her step to separate would look more plausible to onlookers.

  leaving_quietly: "These guys either had a C.O. visit, or call back to HQ, or both. Those are the two statements that define a person's loyalty."

  You are right. The CO visited 2 weeks ago. I already expected this kind of outcome.

  Phizzy: Thank you very much for your personal experience.

  Datadog: "Tell them that.you did not dedicate your life to ORG ."

  The last time they met, this elder said during the conversation that we didn't dedicate our lives to the organisation but to Jehovah. I said the same sentence yesterday, and the very same elder says. "This is a statement which often comes from apostates."

  ecan6: "Yes, of course. Jesus said: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst" (Matthew 18:20). I am convinced that the Jehovah's Witnesses are directed by Jehovah [as are everyonne else once in a while when he see's fit - including the evil Catholics!].

  That is a very clever statement. Parts of it I will use in my answer.

  Searcher: Thanks for your advice. Of course your points are true, but I won't be that direct.

  Tech49: "In my humble opinion, don't give them a reply. Seems you have already told them more than they deserve, or need, to know. They dont deserve the power you would give to them."

  Of course during all these years I told them way too much. Now all of this just leads to those 2 or 3 stupid questions.

  Watchtower Free: "Then say to end it "My faith is personal between myself and God"

  I will probably use this sentence to end it.

  ABibleStudent: Thank you so much for your always loving concern and advice. If my wife could love me, value me as the person I am, then I would be ready to reconcile. But this reconciliation has to come from us both. I will also mention your reasoning about the 2 greatest commandments.

  OntheWayOut: " Then I could honestly tell my son why they chose to kick me out and show him examples of how their own Bible shows that life is precious and they are misusing the teachings on blood and trying to weasel out with "fractions."

  My son is still very young (17 months). As he grows older, I will never speak badly against his mother or her belief. I give him all freedom to choose his course of life and also his religion. But of course when he is old enough I will also show him, why that I think differently than the organisation.

  ChaChing: "They cannot be reasoned with."

  That is really true. Either they bring you back to be obedient to anything the organisation teaches, or they throw you out. To find the middle way is like walking on a thin red line.

  Sarahsmile: "Focus on getting shared custody and your son's future. Make sure your wife can not move 5 miles away from your location."

  The relationship to my son is the most important thing for me now. We are very close. I am every 2 weeks with him for at least 2 days. I am fighting for that, as my wife does a lot to reduce visiting time to a minimum. But I am happy that she also has to abide by the law. She moved 500 km. away and lives at her parents at the moment. I took an apartment in the area and go there all 2 weeks. I will not let anything destroy my relationship to my son.

  IslandMan: Great reasoning.

  What will I do? I think first I will try to postpone my answer as long as possible.

  Then I will give them an answer. But I will not lie.

  I will let you know, how the situation develops.

  Thank's so much and take care.

  Daniel
• 

  jookbeard

  just blatantly bare faced lie, there is no holy spirit directing these small minded petty idiots, I lied on my JC , the result was reversed , I was almost begging for them not to DF me and was sorry if I'd stumbled others etc, all the while having a ton of apostate material in my car, the 2 elders to initiated the proceedings against me lied, their whole culture is based on deciet/lies and dishonesty.
• 

  KateWild

  These elders are gunning for you Daniel. If they want to DF you they will find as much evidence as they can against you. If you put it off they can't get any evidence. I like phizzy's experience, but you said you won't lie.

  If you can avoid them long term that could be another option.

  Kate xx
• 

  Phizzy

  I don't know if this is helpful, but I thought it was simply a great reply to the "loyalty" question, it was given by former poster on here "Dagney" many years ago, it goes thus :

  " Oh! That's not for me to decide! The scripture lays the burden on the "slave", and how he is treating the Master's belongings. Not if the belongings accept the slave."

  I cannot quite remember how the "Noo Lite" explanation of "belongings" goes now, so his answer may have to be adjusted, but it is good isn't it ?
• 

  oppostate

  @Phizzy

  That's probably the best answer to a loyalty question I've ever heard.

  Turn the doctrine against them by using the plain scriptural rendering.

  It also makes one sound quite humble!
• 

  PaintedToeNail

  How about 'Frankly my dears, I don't give a damn!"
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Datadog: "Tell them that.you did not dedicate your life to ORG ."

  The last time they met, this elder said during the conversation that we didn't dedicate our lives to the organisation but to Jehovah. I said the same sentence yesterday, and the very same elder says. "This is a statement which often comes from apostates."

  That's why you look them in the eye and say, " YOU said " We don't dedicate our live to an Organization." Then you push the highlighted quotes acros the table. Then you say, " Then YOU said, " This is what apostates say..." Are you saying that what is written in our publications is "apostate material?" This guys are so wacked-out. They will contradict themselves multiple times during any given coinversation. It takes almost lawyer like skill to keep them on track. It's difficult because on an actuall witness stand they are caught. With you, it's different. They don't see you as an authority figure. That doesn't mean you can't play hardball.

  If you meet with them again, take them to task. Also, interrupt them constantly and act puzzled while taking notes. [ This what I call " The Columbo method." Just watch the show if you need pointers.] This will throw off their game. Seriously, make them repeat themselves and take notes of what they say infront of them. If you get the feeling that they are out for blood, just say that you want the C.O involved. Many times the C.O will tell them to back off. Not because he is on your side, but because the Elders could be doing something that will cause legal problems for the WTBTS.

  I hope it goes well. If you child is really young then you will be alright. Never underestimate a child's respect for a parent who loves them unconditionally and never lies to them. Your behavior will pay off in the future. My "non-believing" Father is a real source of strength for me. I did not always appreciate him, but now I realize how much he has actually done for me. As long as you are always there for your child, and are always loving and honest, the day will come when they appreciate you. It may be hard, but that's what good Dad's have to endure. We sometimes make tough calls that others do not understand, and we suffer to help our children.

  DD