leaving_quietly: That's a good point: They take Jesus out of the loop. And when you point it out, they say Jehovah directs - through Jesus - of course!
Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more
by Daniel1555 73 Replies latest members private
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disposable hero of hypocrisy
Great replies. Really clear. Does anyone know if there's an elders letter outlining these two loyalty questions? If not then where are they coming from?
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Tech49
To clarify a key point: They do not NEED a reply to those questions. They WANT a reply, to "determine" and "judge" what is going on in your head and heart. Big difference.
They will think what they want, no matter what you say.
Sure, you could lie, but how long are they going to buy it? How long could you live with yourself? Sooner or later they will form another opinion of you based solely on conjecture and mis-information. Sure, you could tell them the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, (and they will think even worse of you)...but really why? What gives them the right to have your heart?
Damn few people know what is going on in my head and heart, and I dont share with anyone that "demands" an answer, I dont care what your title is, or what "responsibilities" you hold in the congregation. None....of....your.....business..... now move along.
In my humble opinion, don't give them a reply. Seems you have already told them more than they deserve, or need, to know. They dont deserve the power you would give to them.
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Watchtower-Free
Screw them and their phony authority . Tell them
yes to both questions. Then say to end it "My faith is personal
between myself and God"
By saying yes YOU keep control.
They want to get you to say NO so they don't have to risk their
own delusions talking to you . Or answering you.
Don't give them the power .If you are frustrated go on Google and start a FREE blog under a pen name and vent your ass off.
Christian Sparlock Freedom (Face Book)
3rd generation JW of 50+ yrs
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Crazyguy
Searcher has some real good stuff, you may also say that your not going to judge if these men are the faithful and discreet slave or not because that maybe sinning against the holy spirit but at the same time all the writers in the new testament stated to make sure of all things that what is being taught is correct. The bible says nowhere to be blindly following men. Then you may ask how teaching for over 80 years that it was the creators promise that the new world would come before the generation of 1914 passes away brings praises to god? Then you may follow does god lie? Then who told this mistruth for over 80 years ? I wouldn't push but then you could bring up scriptures in proverbs about not lieing and you don't want to be caught as a lier.
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Ding
Sounds like they are in loyalty oath mode.
They only answer they will accept is yes to both questions.
I'm sure the elders see no contradiction between that and JWs' claim that they are not following men...
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DATA-DOG
Oh! I know what to say. Say that you have been thinking about things a lot. Say that you have been losing sleep because of all this, and because of the stress. [ Make them treat you in an unloving manner to expose who they are ] Then print off some information about Raymundis Martini and "JEHOVAH." Also print off some information about who authorized the Bible Cannon. Then say that apparently GOD can use anyone! Then say that you have no doubt that this is "JEHOVAH'S" Organization.
I said something similar. It was no lie, just theocratic warfare. You see, I don't believe in Jehovah of the Watchtower Society, but they do not deserve that information. If they press the issue, just bring up some past beliefs that are no longer true. ACT INNOCENTLY, THAT IS KEY. Then say I believed those things until they were "adjusted", so I see no reason to dispute what the WT says now. I am just tired and stressed.
See what I did there? Make your wording very exact. They can do NOTHING if you admit nothing. Beat them at their own game. Also, SEARCHER has a good point about past screw-ups. Ask them who was a fault when the WT printed something that was incorrect? Was is Jesus? Was it JEHOVAH? If it makes you more comfortable, insist that they come to you. Do not go to the KH. The back room is their home turf. Make them play at your house. Trust me, my friend.
DD
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ABibleStudent
Hi Daniel1555, I'm sorry that your wife and you seperated and that the elders are hounding you. Do you still love your wife enough to want to reconcile with her?
You could answer yes to both questions like Watchtower-Free wrote. You could do a Bill Clinton by answering yes since the questions don't specifically say that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Governing Body is the FDS and still not lie. If you say yes, your wife may be marked as a bad association for leaving you and feel obliged to reconcile.
If you can get your parents and wife to attend the meeting with the elders, I like The Searcher's response. It might awaken your parents (and possibly your wife) to learn how the WTBTS treats JWs, who do not swear an oath to the WTBTS GB instead of following God's two greatist commandments. I would recommend that you talk with your parents about your options, so that they are aware of your situation and how the JWs are required to swear an oath to the WTBTS GB and not to following God's two greatist commandments.
Avoiding the elders at this point does not offer any advantages other than you will not worry about what you say to them.
Best of wishes to you finding the winning move for your Kobayashi Maru situation. Insisting that your parents and wife be present and in your own home might be the best way to keep the elders off-balance.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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L3G
They will explain nothing regarding loyalty to the GB. Nor will they entertain anything biblical. Either be 'repentant' in their eyes, if you can stomach that, or take any other course and get ready to be shunned by all your former associates in the org, including your parents, wife and maybe, in time, even your kid. Also get ready for real issues with seeing your son, as your wife will fight you in this. Likely the elders have already counseled her to separate from you, telling her you are a spiritual danger to her and your boy. In the end those are the only choices. No elder in your situation will listen to you if you speak your mind or ask thinking questions.
If you take the former option, you must affirm loyalty to the GB, go along with the blood teaching (retract your former statements), and continue with your confused and doubtful line. You'll have to fake it and also go along, at least to some degree, with the course they'll recommend: all the meetings, 'studying' WT publications, likely with one of them, carefully watching your speech around the brothers and sisters. In other words, at least feigned loyalty, like all good JWs. And keep in mind that they'll have their eyes on you and want to meet with you periodically to 'check up on your spiritual progress.'
Those are only two ultimate options. Take your pick. Think seriously about the consequences of each.
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disposable hero of hypocrisy
How utterly ludicrous that you're being effectively tried and made to decide which side of the line you stand on based on what you MIGHT DO IN THE FUTURE ? !
The mind boggles...