One aspect of evolution that does not make sense..... (page 13)

bohm

Apognophos:

Sure, bohm, I'd be glad to address that. The magnet is being pulled by atomic forces inside itself. It does not need to perceive anything or even have a mind at all.

Wasn't that easy? Or did you prefer to be insulted and told to read a book?

Thankyou for your reply. But if the magnet gets pulled by atomic forces INSIDE itself, how can it then be pulled TOWARDS the fridge? I mean, if i am sitting in my car and pulling MYSELF, then clearly THE CAR wont move.

Also your reply does not adress my question, which is how the magnet knows where the fridge is without having eyes.

Electromagnetism just doesnt make any sense, I dont understand how we are supposed to just accept it.

Apognophos

You have the Internet, and should be able to track down early/layman level introductory articles and books about various aspects of evolution.

Well, as for myself, I've digested a lot of what Wikipedia has to offer, and some other sites. I'm yearning for more detailed information that would be found in books. My point was just that some people do not have easy access to books. It's a lot easier for someone to discreetly read a forum than a book. I don't know what EOM's situation is; I was just thinking of anyone who might be reading this.

I really wish we could have gotten on with the discussion instead of arguing over chameleons and lobbing recriminations at each other, regardless of who started it. But I think that Space Madness was the one who came into the conversation specifically to stir the pot. His posts here and here were more or less trolling.

There's also a strange denial taking place here of the validity of using forums to ask specific questions. Let's shut down Yahoo! Answers, I guess. Those people need to just read a book, jeez.

Now, what if someone is asking a question in a way that's meant to be rhetorical, and they aren't really looking for an answer? This is still an opportunity to present an answer for lurkers. I'm not in the habit of prejudging people's intentions and responding hostilely if I think I've figured out that they have an ulterior motive. I don't have the time or inclination for that, sorry. (On that note, I've realized that I am spending way too much time on this forum, and it's beginning to interfere with my life. I'm going to be making an effort to take a break for a while. I will, however, keep participating in any topics I've posted on, until those have winded down.)

Viviane

Personally I don't judge people by their past history. I stay in the present, because people are a process, not a product. Perhaps he just wasn't satisfied by the past explanations he got. I was willing to spend some time writing up (what I hoped were) answers to his questions because, even if EOM is not receptive to the answers (and I actually think he is), there are always plenty of lurkers reading these topics, and I am confident that "read a book" does not sound very convincing to a JW that may be reading this thread.

Ah, so if someone stole from you 10 times, you would trust them? If someone beat their wife every time they got drunk you would be comfortable offering them a drink because this time it might be different?

Please, you do exactly what you are claiming you don't do all the time.

Sorry, but that's arrogance, plain and simple. I want to win over people to the things I've learned and am enthusiastic about, not bask in a sense of superiority.

Sorry, but that's wrong, plain and simple. If you had bothered to read the posting history, you would see that the very people you are attempting and failing to chide HAVE attempted to help EOM with his questions many many many times. When it becomes obvious he is up to his old tricks of attempting "gotcha" questions, the attempt to help him learn ends because it's plain (s)he is not interested in learning.

I suggest, before you start calling people names, you do the smart thing and learn some context and history because that does matter.

MeanMrMustard

For anyone that wants to read good, informative articles about evolution: talkorigins.org

MMM

MeanMrMustard

Sorry, but that's wrong, plain and simple. If you had bothered to read the posting history, you would see that the very people you are attempting and failing to chide HAVE attempted to help EOM with his questions many many many times. When it becomes obvious he is up to his old tricks of attempting "gotcha" questions, the attempt to help him learn ends because it's plain (s)he is not interested in learning.

There may be something to be said about focusing on the lurkers. I used to post on other forums too in regards to JWs. I remember getting into some hard and heavy 607/1914 discussions with JWs. I wasn't trying to convince them, however. I knew they were drones. But the lurkers that come by, well... that's a different story.

MMM

Viviane

There's also a strange denial taking place here of the validity of using forums to ask specific questions.

Again, if you bothered to learn history, you would see that there are a wide variety of posters that have labored long and hard to answer questions.

What you are seeing is the refusal to engage in petty word games.

Apognophos

Ah, so if someone stole from you 10 times, you would trust them? If someone beat their wife every time they got drunk you would be comfortable offering them a drink because this time it might be different?

I'd tell you what kind of fallacy that is, but I don't want you to flip out on me. I know how you feel about fallacy-naming as a form of argument, so I'll let you work it out for yourself

You know, I hate to draw attention to this as if I'm patting myself on the back, but I feel a need to point out what EOM wrote earlier:

Overall your response did move the impossibility of the idea over a few notches for me and gave me some things to investigate deeper, thanks.

Based on his repeating back some of the points I had made in that post, he sounded like he was listening to what I was saying. My feeling from the beginning was that I was willing to spend the time to present some arguments for evolution in case it helped EOM understand evolution, and from the above response, maybe it did.

I was willing to spend that time even if it didn't help EOM, in case it helped other people that are reading this. They can benefit from seeing substantial answers to these questions. It wouldn't be so hard to at least link to the older posts you've made in response to these questions, if they've been asked before, would it? Maybe you're just burned out on answering these questions, and as a newbie, I'm still enthusiastic about answering them.

Apognophos

What you are seeing is the refusal to engage in petty word games.

Au contraire! I've seen many petty word games so far in this thread from the pro-evolution posters. Some of them might have been genuine mistakes in reading comprehension. But I've seen a number of claims that EOM has no idea what he's talking about just because he used an imprecise word, rather than saying, "I think you meant this word, not that one".

Viviane

I'd tell you what kind of fallacy that is, but I don't want you to flip out on me. I know how you feel about fallacy-naming as a form of argument, so I'll let you work it out for yourself

You have no idea how I feel about anything. Just after you said you don't judge me, you decide you know how I feel? Tsk tsk.

You know, I hate to draw attention to this as if I'm patting myself on the back, but I feel a need to point out what EOM wrote earlier:

Good thing, too, since he didn't say which direction it moved. Making assumptions, again? I thought you didn't do that.

It wouldn't be so hard to at least link to the older posts you've made in response to these questions, if they've been asked before, would it?

That has been done many times. Not on this thread, but if you feel it is important, you are free to do some research and post those links. Already many links to outside articles have been posted.

Au contraire!

No, I meant exactly what I wrote. If you feel there is a different petty word game going on, of course you can think that and proveit, but it in no way doesn't mean that exactly what I said isn't going on.

MeanMrMustard

@Apognophos:

" just because he used an imprecise word"

Sometimes that matters. I've pointed this out to EOM, but only because I noticed certain phrases being used over and over again.

MMM

One aspect of evolution that does not make sense.....

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