Hardcore JW Friend Predicts the End of the Organization within 10 years.

by kneehighmiah 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    I'm not so sure the WT will go on for hundreds of years before a split and the reason is that so much is demanded of the rank and file that they barely have time to themselves once work, meetings, and ministry is taken into account.

    The organization demands so much and there is nothing about what they do that creates friendships between people at the Hall.

    Most churches have some form of community gatherings, even if it's just a meal.

    The Watchtower has NOTHING sponsored in the way of community meals, day trips for the elderly, youth groups etc. They have nothing.

    People need to feel wanted and part of something. We are, for the most part, social creatures. The Watchtower does not fill the void in people's social lives. That, coupled with "expectation postponed is making the heart sick" is enough to dampen their zeal.

    Will they be around in 10 years? Sure, but the quality of witnessing and the meetings is very dumbed down.

    They have nothing to look forward to.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    I don't know whether the org will cease to exist in the next ten years, but in one sense it's already gone. As I and others have already indicated, it's not the same anymore. Consider some athletic team that used to be exciting - attracting new fans, etc. Now, that team just exists and nobody cares about it or follows it. I think something similar has happened with JWs.

    Have any of you seen any normal, stable, well-read people with decent intelligence and good common sense become JWs lately? In the past, such did. Probably a lot of us are in that category. I see virtually no new converts in my area now, and certainly none of the caliber I just mentioned. People of that caliber are not going to buy into the religion without doing some simple research and asking some simple questions. And when they do, they are going to get answers - answers that will at least cause them to be skeptical enough of JWs that they'll never make a full commitment. With the increased availability of info now and the passing of time showing JWs to be more and more wrong, I don't see how they can attract any quality members anymore. For sure, the material is dumbed down, nothing's exciting, and the doctrines are largely unprovable and indefensible. Some are outright ludicrous.

    Consider the new generation teaching. According to JWs, Jesus was supposed to have been a master teacher who explained things in simple terms that the lowliest of people could understand. How, then, could he use a term like "generation" in a very important message and mean something as ludicrous as two groups of people whose lives overlap? It just doesn't make sense. If that's what he meant, I would not call him a master teacher. The pre-1995 generation definition made a lot more sense (see footnote). And even though it was somewhat flawed, I had no problem teaching it to others. I would not teach anybody the new doctrine.

    And it's not just that higher caliber individuals aren't coming in anymore; it seems that some already in are beginning to gain a sense of smell and are realizing that something doesn't smell right. Consider my favorite brother in our circuit. He is very humble, kind, and by far the smartest, most knowledgeable JW I know. He's one of those people who loves to learn - not to be a show-off, but because he loves it and wants answers. He studies Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. He reads and compares different Bible translations. He has a big library. He is always seeking and questioning. He knows the Bible better than anybody I know. I don't know the whole story, but I know something's up with him. He's not an elder anymore. He has talked to me a few times and expressed some points that I really appreciated because I like people who are real and honest. I don't feel that I can give anymore details right now about him - maybe later.

    Consider some more anecdotal evidence. In my area it's an awful chore to get an assembly or convention part that requres interviewing, for example, a family. An average, stable family with members having common sense and being able to say "Jehovah's Witnesses" (instead of "Jehovah Witness" or "Jehovah Witnesses") is just almost nonexistent.

    A couple of decades ago, I knew JWs who were smart, well-read, and knowledgeable. One older brother studied Koine Greek. Another chose world history as an area of expertise. I was proud to take new ones to meetings then. I invite no one to meetings now; it's embarassing. There are some smart non-JW people that I know that I really care about and when I was still pretty confident that JWs had the truth, would have loved to invite to meetings, but doing so would have destroyed any possible favorable impression they might have had of JWs. For the last ten or fifteen years, I've had a number of older sisters confide in me about the quality (actually, lack thereof) of public talks. It has gone, and is going, downhill. One regular feature of the Watchtower study in our area (in at least two congregations) is what Mrs Magnum and I call the dictionary game. The conductor will ask, for example, "now what does this here word "transgress" mean?" For some reason sisters always play the game. One will comment in a higher tone: "well, my dictionary says....". Another, in a lower tone: "Well, my dictionary says...". Then a third, in a mid-level tone: "My dictionary says...". Then the conductor says "yes, and another dictionary says...". And, I swear, it's common words like the one I mentioned.

    So, I have no prediction as to how long the org will last in the sense of just existing, but I think to some, in another sense, it's already gone.

    footnote: Even though it made a lot more sense, it wasn't without its problems. By 1994, it had been 80 years; that's a life-span, not really a generation.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Magnum,

    I enjoyed reading your post. You've hit the nail on the head.

    The organization is quite a different place to be when you compare it with that even in the mid 90s.

    The quality of meetings has gone down and there is nothing to look forward to but more of the same.

    I see grown men and women constantly being asked every year about how to prepare for the district convention, what size lunch cooler to bring, what hotels to stay in, where to eat, what to wear.

    People are being dumbed down. They don't care what they're taught as long as they sit through it and make the odd comment here and there.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I appreciate your comment, Magnum. I agree with a lot of it. I actually have seen someone within the last few years become a Witness who was intelligent, successful, and seemed to have everything going for him. He was very meticulous in questioning everything he was taught (yes, he got baptized somehow anyway...). Not sure what his story is. He didn't have anything obviously wrong with him... perhaps it was emotional neediness, as he's an extrovert and may not have known a lot of people in the area where he lived.

  • designs
    designs

    Jesus was the original huskter for his religion- I want you to beleive in the End but I won't tell you when the End is.

    Every christian has fallen for the same promise. Watchtower is just the johnny come lately in a long line.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Apognophos, thanks for the example. I guess that shows it is possible. I guess there a few exeptions that aren't indicative of the bigger trend. I really don't think I would have ever become a JW if things had been like they are now when I came in. I might have associated some, but not become a full-fledged gung-ho JW like I was. In my area, I can't think of a single higher-caliber convert in the last ten, fifteen, or maybe even twenty years. I do know of one who came in about twenty years ago in another area of my state. Very educated, popular, good-looking guy with a very good job - of a profession that requires an advanced degree. In fact, he was so popular (can't give specifics) that it shocked me that he came in. I did some internet snooping to see if I could determine whether he's still in. I found a Facebook page that gives me strong reason to believe he's no longer a JW.

    Remember the article in one of the mags about the guy who taught Greek... and became a JW and praised the NWT. A few months ago, I did some research on him and found out he's no longer a JW. I saw at least one reference to him on this site.

  • steve2
    steve2

    The organization is like the world: It won't end, it will instead splutter and stumble, never quite ending or starting up again. It will look as if it is at death's door, but go on, attracting interest here and commitment there. Just like planet earth.

    It is interesting that people on this forum use virtually the same cut and dried mentality displayed by Witnesses when they talk about how much longer the world has left. Hearing ex-Witnesses declare the organization will implode in 10 years is rich in hilarious irony.I need to lie down - my ribs ache from laughing (INTLD- MRAFL).

    Can I make a prediction? We as individuals will be dead long before the world or the organization. Ouch!

  • kneehighmiah
    kneehighmiah

    At my hall we joke that nobody can explain 1914 and that everyone studying now has mental problems. The publications talk to us like we're babies. No adult would join after sitting through a part about preparing for the district convention. They have come out with simplified editions of the WT and other publications because many new converts are uneducated. At the assemblies I'm disturbed by the amount of weirdos present.

  • villagegirl
    villagegirl

    DJS - I think you summed it up beautifully - love the "mini me rules"

    Cults do eat their own, and the Borg keeps the pressure on and divides

    brother against brother, in so many ways, from sexism, to classes of people,

    to the depressing ritual of passing around wine and bread and guilting people

    into being afaid to partake, as if they are unworthy, is sadistic.

  • villagegirl
    villagegirl

    Kneehigh - hahaha may be you just woke up and noticed the weirdos

    who were always there. The last talk I went to was an embarassment to

    listen to delivered by a complete bumpkin who praised himself and said

    people used to make fun of him in High School and now look at me , he said.

    I was looking and it was not a pretty picture.

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