Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Brainfloss

  Defend Jehovah's witness says

  The primary reason Jehovah's Witnesses opposers even bring up the topic of 1975 is to try and paint Jehovah's Witnesses as ' False Prophets '. By a definition of their choosing , Jehovah's Witnesses critics ignore what is meant by the word 'prophet' and what was intended by WBTS publications.

  http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/1975-and-jehovahs-witnesses-opposers.html

  insight on the scriptures definitian of prophet would agree with the opposers view

  PROPHET

  One through whom divine will and purpose are made known. (Lu 1:70; Ac 3:18-21) Although the etymology of the Hebrew term for a prophet (na·viʼ′) is uncertain, the use of this distinctive term shows that true prophets were no ordinary announcers but were spokesmen for God, ‘men of God’ with inspired messages. (1Ki 12:22; 2Ki 4:9; 23:17) They stood in God’s “intimate group,” and he revealed his “confidential matter” to them.—Jer 23:18; Am 3:7; 1Ki 17:1; see SEER.

  The Greek pro·phe′tes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe·mi′, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Tit 1:12.) Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction. (Compare Jg 6:7-10.) Nonetheless, living in harmony with God’s will requires that the individual know what Jehovah’s revealed purposes for the future are so that he may bring his ways, desires, and goals into line with the divine will. Hence, in the great majority of cases, the Biblical prophets did convey messages that were, directly or indirectly, related to the future.

  Distinguishing the True From the False. In some cases, such as that of Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and Jesus, God’s prophets performed miraculous works that attested to the genuineness of their message and office. Not all, however, are recorded as performing such powerful works. The three essentials for establishing the credentials of a true prophet, as given through Moses, were: The true prophet would speak in Jehovah’s name; the things foretold would come to pass (De 18:20-22); and his prophesying must promote true worship, being in harmony with God’s revealed word and commandments (De 13:1-4). The last requirement was probably the most vital and decisive, for an individual might hypocritically use God’s name, and by coincidence, his prediction might see fulfillment. But the true prophet was not solely or even primarily a prognosticator, as has been shown. Rather, he was an advocate of righteousness, and his message dealt primarily with moral standards and their application. He expressed God’s mind on matters. (Isa 1:10-20; Mic 6:1-12) Hence, it was not necessary to wait perhaps for years or generations to determine whether the prophet was true or false by fulfillment of a prediction. If his message contradicted God’s revealed will and standards, he was false. Thus, a prophet who foretold peace for Israel or Judah, at a time when the people were engaging in disobedience to God’s Word and Law, of necessity was false.—Jer 6:13, 14; 14:11-16.

  Jesus’ later warning concerning false prophets paralleled that of Moses. Though using his name, and giving “signs and wonders to lead astray,” their fruits would prove them “workers of lawlessness.”—Mt 7:15-23; Mr 13:21-23; compare 2Pe 2:1-3; 1Jo 4:1-3.

  The true prophet never foretold simply to satisfy human curiosity. Every prediction related to God’s will, purpose, standards, or judgment. (1Ki 11:29-39; Isa 7:3-9) Often the future events foretold were the consequence of existing conditions; as the people sowed, so they would reap. The false prophets lulled the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God was still with them to protect and prosper them. (Jer 23:16-20; 28:1-14; Eze 13:1-16; compare Lu 6:26.) They imitated the true prophets, employing symbolic language and actions. (1Ki 22:11; Jer 28:10-14) While some were outright frauds, many were evidently prophets who became delinquent or apostate. (Compare 1Ki 18:19; 22:5-7; Isa 28:7; Jer 23:11-15.) Some were women, false prophetesses. (Eze 13:17-23; compare Re 2:20.) A “spirit of uncleanness” replaced God’s spirit. All such false prophets were to be put to death.—Zec 13:2, 3; De 13:5.

  As to those measuring up to the divine standards, the fulfillment of certain “short-range” prophecies, some being accomplished in just a day or a year, gave basis for confidence that their prophecies relating to a more distant future would also see fulfillment.—1Ki 13:1-5; 14:12, 17; 2Ki 4:16, 17; 7:1, 2, 16-20.

  watchtower quotes:

  For an answer, people should listen to the plain preaching by the remnant prefigured by Jeremiah, for these preach to men the present-day fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecies. Who made them a prophet to speak with the authority that they claim? Well, who made Jeremiah a prophet?" Watchtower 1959 Jan 15 pp.39-41

  "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation." Watchtower 1964 Oct 1 p.601

  "Jehovah God has made known to his anointed ones in advance what these Scriptures mean." Watchtower 1931 Jun 1 p.160

  you be the judge are the opposers using a different definitian the the wtbs?
• 

  Brainfloss

  Now the way I see it the WTBS has repeatedly called themselves prophets. I can produce numerous quotes from thier own literiture . they

  make proclamations that they attribute to a higher power so by thier own defination they are....agreed?

  now the question is are they a true prophet or a false prophet?

  Examine their record many here will help you.

  if they are a true prophet follow them if not follow the advice in Deuteronomy 18: 20,21

  20 “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.+ 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
• 

  Ucantnome

  thank you defender of truth. Can i ask you if you have ever read the book published some years later in 1974 Gods eternal purpose now triumphing for mans good.

  in this publication it talks about Gods purposes and Jesus and how the 7th creative day will by fulfillment of God's purpose in connection with Jesus the seventh day will end up blessed.

  i believe it gives the year of 526 BCE as being the close of the first half of the 7th creative day
• 

  punkofnice

  Punkofnice:"So how does the spirit do this? Please present evidence.".."It was referred to the apostles and older men at Jerusalem, who served as a central governing body.Those older men were not infallible; they were not persons who never made a mistake. (Compare Galatians 2:11-14.) But God used them.They considered what the inspired Scriptures said on the subject at hand as well as the evidence of the operation of God's spirit in opening up the Gentile field, and then they rendered a decision. God blessed that arrangement."United in Worship p.120I do not need to prove to you that we have Gods blessing as a group. The worldwide growth and unity is plain for anyone to see.

  Hello, looks like we're calling you DOT now.

  'Governing body' is a modern legalistic term NOT found in the Bible. There is a 'governing body' for many big businesses.

  There is no evidence whatsoever that a 'governing body' existed in the 1st century. Without going into an explanation (I am at work so haven't got the time), Paul and the other blokes worked on their own.

  The only reason you've been told there was a 'governing body' is to give power to your leaders in Brooklyn so they can use 'appeal to authority' and 'appeal to fear' to control you. They need your money and labour so that they can continue to live a rock star lifestyle and pay their losses in protecting paedophiles.

  I do not need to prove to you that we have Gods blessing as a group.

  NO. You need to prove it to yourself. I've seen no evidence of a blessing only the confirmation bias kicking in for the rank and file because they need to believe this propaganda.

  The worldwide growth and unity is plain for anyone to see.

  You're kidding, right? What growth? Compared to the growing world population the 'growth' is slowing down. If it's evidence that it has god's blessing then what about the growth of other religions that are growing faster than the watchtower corporation?

  E.G. Islam? Is that evidence that Allah has blessed them?

  There's a church where I live that has upward of 1,000 in attendance each Sunday now. By your logic god must have blessed them more than the local congregations...two of which has just sold their halls and amalgamated with other congregations.

  You need to check your facts my friend rather than rely on the propaganda the watchtower is fooling you with.

  You'll get there..............that's why you're here..........you doubt.

  I hope you have checked fully http://www.jwfacts.com/

  I hope your journey of discovery goes well for you. You'll be out of the corporation in no time........that's why you're here.
• 

  Ucantnome

  defender of truth I was using my phone last night and now I am able to use the computer. These are a few quotes from the publication that the slave felt we needed to study in 1974.

  God's Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing for Man's Good (1974 WTB&TS) In the front of this book my wife has written the date August 1974 and the assembly she recieved the book. Inside there are several other dates relating to when it was studied at the meeting, starting in December 1974 and the last date is May 1975. Which to me means that at that time it was the most up to date fresh spiritual food given by the faithful slave.

  On page 131 in paragraph 5 it states,

  "The first half or 'evening' period of God's seventh creative 'day' was now closing, 3,500 years from the creation of Adam and Eve. The morning of this creative 'day' was due to begin at 526 B.C.E ."

  This was under the heading, "Morning of the seventh Creative day begins 526 B.C.E."

  Earlier in the book on Page 51 there is a subheading "Evening of the Seventh Creative Day begins 4026 B.C.E."

  From these statements I would conclude that the seventh creative day was 7000 years in length and started in 4026 BCE. Maybe I reading it wrong but I don't think so as this is what I understood at the time that we believed the creative days to be 7000 years long.

  On Page 53 the book says "At the beginning of this 'seventh day' almost six thousand years ago God 'proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.'"

  As it says it was almost 6000 years into the seventh creative day. Which I believe would be exactly 6000 years in in October of 1975 from the start date of 4026 BCE

  The last chapter of the book is "Making the Seventh Creative 'Day' Sacred" page 187.

  on page 189 talking about Satan the Devil it reads,

  "For six thousand years he and his seed have been allowed to continue their effort to make it seem to be a cursed day unsacred... During the thousand years that the Great Serpent and his demon seed are abyssed, Jehovah will reverse all the wickedness."

  This thousand years of the Devil being abyssed was yet to come but before the end of the 7000 year seventh creative day.

  On the following Page 190 it says,

  "...God's seventh creative day will end up blessed, sacred, sanctified. Jehovah having blessed that day six thousand years ago..."

  On page 186 it says "With all his earthly seed destroyed at Har-Magedon," it then asks the question "Are the original serpent and his invisible demonic seed to be left on the loose in the vicinity of our earth down to which they have been ousted from heaven? No!"

  "By removing the Serpent and his demons from the nieghborhood of the earth and hurling them into the abyss and sealing them up there, bound as with chains for the next thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3 pictures this, not as a part of the war at Har-magedon, but as a follow up of that war."

  I would conclude from this that Har-magedon is before the last 1000 years of the 7th creative day which started in 4026BCE and 6000 years is up in October 1975 and we have been provided with this material in 1974 and studied it after. I think this was the most up to date material at the time maybe i'm missing something in reading it or understanding it.

  On the internet site that you mention i believe that it says one of the reasons that people focus on 1975 is to show that the Watchtower are false prophets. The reason I focus on it at times is because it altered my life and even up to recently i've had elders who say it was brothers speculating on what the faithful and discreet slave class were providing as spiritual food, I don't feel that is true.
• 

  Phizzy

  Don't leave us though D.O.T , we are here to answer any of your questions.

  And as support, for when you step out of the W.T Bubble in to the wonderful world of freedom and discovery.
• 

  galaxie

  Well said Phizzy , D O T moral support and friendship can always be found on this forum if you have doubts /questions.

  Best wishes to you.
• 

  punkofnice

  Phizzy - I was wondering if DOT will be exiting the forum tbh.

  This seems the way of things. I only hope that DOT has had plenty to think about to help them realise just exactly what the watchtower is.
• 

  Ucantnome

  In 1971 the book The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah-How was published by the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society.

  on page 56 it says this.

  "The fact that Jehovah appeared to Ezekiel in vision and spoke from his throne on his celestial chariot and directly sent Ezekiel on a definite mission with a definite message proves that Ezekiel was a true prophet, sent by God, and that what he spoke under inspiratin was the real word of God. The fact,too,that he was sent on such a difficult mission adds tothe proof that he did not assume to be a prophet speakng in the Jehovah's name, but that the Highest Authority in all existence sent him to speak in the divine name. He was thus, in an outstanding way, made a witness of Jehovah."

  on page 66 it says,

  It is manifest that in the year 1919 the invisible heavenly organization of Jehovah, like the celestial chariot seen in Ezekiel's vision, rolled up and stopped, not before Christendom's advocates of the League of Nations, but before the anonted proclaimers of the heavenly kingdom of God in the hands of Jesus Christ. From atop this celestial chariotlike organization Jehovah commissioned this dedicated, baptized anointed class of servants to speak to all the nations in His name. Thus like Ezekiel they became Jehovah's Witnesses.

  A few pages earlier on page 61 it had asked the question

  Whom could the real chariot of Jehovah's organization roll up to and confront that He might bestow upon this qualified one the commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah?

  From my understanding of reading the book the anointed had a commission like Ezekiel and like Ezekiel who ate the scoll with the dirges and moanings written on it which pictured (page 77) 'all those parts of God's Holy Bible that have to do with the spiritual plagues and the "great tribulation" that are to come upon Christendom...'

  The annointed remnant of today ate up "this roll of a book" in that they accepted the commission and responsibility to deliver all these messages of God's Word as He by his spirit made them plain and understandable to His witnesses. ( underlining mine)

  Then on page 216 we find this,

  Shortly, within out twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom.

  According to the book what Ezekiel said came true and showed he was a true prophet.

  So I think about this more than 1975 and being or not being a true prophet but i could be wrong.
• 

  Phizzy

  Yes, I think about those arrogant claims made in those books too.

  Claims that prove the Jehovah's Witness/W.T religion are false prophets, and that the GB thereof are self-appointed frauds.