Why does Organic Chemistry prove God's exists?

by KateWild 112 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    thank you for your structure of a fullerene. That is wonderful and it's new to me.-Kate

    REALLY????????-cantleave

    You're telling me you've never heard of fullerenes before?-Adam

    Maybe I wasn't paying attetion that day, I don't recall doing fullerenes in organic chem, I can remember benzene rings and equatorial and axial hydrogens. So I have just been reminded, big deal. At least I am being honest Adam.

    You continue to misquote Einstein words out of context-Adam

    No I don't, you are being dishonest Adam, you change the subject and don't stick to topics, plus you said you didn't want to read Max Jammer with me, so you don't know what I am quoting because you haven't read it.

    Adam, Why are you so obsessed with my qualifications? What does it matter? Anyone educated the same as me can see as I can see their qualifications too.

    cantleave has never asked me but he knows. In the UK we don't major in subjects either, and I am a good 20 yrs younger than you, so what I was taught will be different to you in many ways.

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Hi Sam, I qualified as a mineral engineer which as you can probably imagine involved a large degree of inorganic, in fact we avoided having to study organic spiecifically because it has little bearing on mineral exstraction processes. However being part of the Minning Dept at Cardiff most of our practical and field work involved a lot of coal, when the pits were still open. I started my career in SWA on the diamond mines so there was no getting away from carbon in one form or another.

    Adam- are the fullerenes counted as one of the structures of graphene. Sheet graphene has a strange structure if I recall correctly, which is similar to that of the nanotubes, in terms of internal bonding. The name graphyne comes to mind as but I can't recall it's relationship with the others, I think it may be a compisite used in saline filtration.

    Carbon vs God: Both are transparent and black, strong and weak, and are deadly to humanity dependent on their combination with other elemental substances.

    BB

  • adamah
    adamah

    BB asked-

    Adam- are the fullerenes counted as one of the structures of graphene. Sheet graphene has a strange structure if I recall correctly, which is similar to that of the nanotubes, in terms of internal bonding. The name graphyne comes to mind as but I can't recall it's relationship with the others, I think it may be a compisite used in saline filtration.

    From the wikipedia article, it seems some researchers have recently confirmed that 3D fullerenes result when graphenes (2D sheets of graphite) spontaneously form into more stable configurations ("top-down").

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene#Construction

    Two theories have been proposed to describe the molecular mechanisms that make fullerenes. The older, “bottom-up” theory proposes that they are built atom-by-atom. The alternative “top-down” approach claims that fullerenes form when much larger structures break into constituent parts. [45]

    In 2013 researchers discovered that asymmetrical fullerenes formed from larger structures settle into stable fullerenes. The synthesized substance was a particular metallofullerene consisting of 84 carbon atoms with two additional carbon atoms and two yttrium atoms inside the cage. The process produced approximately 100 micrograms. [45]

    However, they found that the asymmetrical molecule could theoretically collapse to form nearly every known fullerene and metallofullerene. Minor perturbations involving the breaking of a few molecular bonds cause the cage to become highly symmetrical and stable. This insight supports the theory that fullerenes can be formed from graphene when the appropriate molecular bonds are severed. [45] [46]

    Interesting stuff, where atoms spontaneously interact with each other due to flux of energy, and spontaneously assume complex shapes.

    Kate said-

    No I don't, you are being dishonest Adam, you change the subject and don't stick to topics, plus you said you didn't want to read Max Jammer with me, so you don't know what I am quoting because you haven't read it.

    Kate, Einstein himself explained what he meant quite well, and I read his book long ago: Einstein doesn't need Max Jammer to explain his meaning for him, and if he's saying Einstein believed in a personal intellient God, he's simply wrong (just like you, by continuing to cite that quote which you've cherry-picked, without bothering to explain the context in which Einstein used it). I can only conclude your intellectual-dishonesty is fully willful, which places you in good company with the WTBTS, an outfit who seemingly thinks they're immune from the rules of ethics.

    Adam

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Adam- Thanks for that I'll give it a good read tomorrow. It would seem more probable that the production of fullerenes is top down due to the difficulties in graphene sheet production and joining because the of the outer atoms, on the sheets, bonding configuration. It's been a long time since I looked at all the more upto date research and practicle uses but I will.

    I still see no reason why the exsistance of organic chemistry can in any way give any validity to the exsistance of something else, the exsistance of God can easily be proved by God's own willingness to or neccessity to demonstrate that he is real. The longer he choses to not step up and defend himself and his own actions the greater the number of the human race will ignore his silence, if you can ignore silence. Isuppose some interlectuals managed it for 4'33" and then proclaimed it to be geniuse.

    BB

  • prologos
    prologos

    at least one feature of the Hexagon-shaped Hydro Carbon molecule & snowflake

    needs NO DESIGNER/GOD.

    it is the ABSTRACT idea of a hexagon, popping into existence whenever it is touching, assembles itself.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    What I see is admiration and awe at the symmetry, beauty of chemistry at its most elemental.

    The attachment of God is subjective and not in any way provable.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Design therefore god - The ultimate non sequitur

  • adamah
    adamah

    jgnat said-

    What I see is admiration and awe at the symmetry, beauty of chemistry at its most elemental.

    Believers simply want to have their cake and eat it, too (AKA confirmation bias, as pointed out by Besty) since believers point to symmetry as indicating an intelligent designer, eg where the varied appearances of snowflakes result from interactions of water molecules forming around an 'inclusion', eg a dust particle in the atmosphere (the same ones from which raindrops form).

    But after pointing out that such symmetry results from unstable chemical intermediates (as in the case of fullerenes, as explained above, which can form around an inclusion of some non-carbon 'seed' atom, like boron), or you point out the fact that relatively few snowflakes are 'perfectly symmetrical', they then point to the IMPROBABILITY of that short-lived intermediate species or the IRREGULARITY of the unstable intermediate as proof of an intelligent designer, too (and here's an asymmetric snow crystal, which are by far more prevalent than the "perfectly symmetrical" ones):

    In the minds of a believer, all roads lead to an intelligent designer, which is exactly what you'd expect when conclusions are reached EVEN BEFORE investigation of the evidence has begun.

    BTW, it's curious how the varied patterns of snowflakes is supposed to point to God, who apparently had some time on His hands to kill so He thought he'd put on a show during a snow-storm to amuse his believers and demonstate his power, as if it would make up for all the varied types of enteroviruses He also intelligently-designed, which cause sickness and death:

    Yeah, a few pretty snowflakes should pretty much make everything Even Steven for designing the viruses which cause an enterovirus infection in a 3 y.o., right?

    Adam

  • 2+2=5
    2+2=5

    What religion are you associated with Kate?

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    KateWild:

    jeffro, I was talking to besty.

    So? It still should have been obvious that I had responded to your comment about atheists allegedly being 'angry at God'.

    but you have shown all the believing lurkers the exact same thing. Which is what? Do you know jeffro?

    That inane guessing games are tedious?

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