by KateWild 96 Replies latest jw friends
Calling someone 'deluded' is not the same as calling someone a 'person of faith'.-tornapart
Yes your point is clear. I retract my statement and join you in disagreeing with Dawkin's and his followers. We are not deluded. We have faith.
Well done tornapart, Love Kate xx
Torn apart: do complex, perfect geometric shapes all need a creator or can they be a result of natural processes? Did someone make each snowflake? Do you think someone made each tree? What about all the imperfect things, diseases etc ... who designed those? Or do you just pick and chose 'nice things' from your god?
I still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that Atheism is not a belief, but Theism is. There cannot possibly be proof "for" the Atheistic position as it is simply a position that says I see no proof for a god.
Their belief is that there is no proof. I'm still open to the idea that proof exists, but we are not aware enough of the facts to see otherwise. Creation (or creation via evolution) could be proof of God, but it could also be proof that God doesn't exist. Without seeing how it all began, we cannot know. And if God does exist, he hasn't made it easy for us.
I was thinking about the topic of God and proof of his existence this morning as I lay in bed listening to "Say Something" by A Great Big World. Great emotional song, btw. I came to the realization that all religions have the same amount of proof as to the existence of their God(s) as Christians do. Whose to say Jehovah/Jesus are correct? It could easily be Allah/Muhammed, Buddha, Anubis, Osiris, Zeus, or any other number of Gods. There's just as much supporting evidence for any and all of these. Yes we have a Bible, but that is assuming all the stories are true and not embellished.
Although, I'm personally leaning towards atheism/anti-theism, I'm still open to theism if given the proper evidence.
Simon,
This is a very interesting topic, in nature the formation of complex geometric shapes is wonderfully awe inspiring and confirms my bias that an itelligent Creator is responsible for this. I have faith it was God.
Love Kate xx
Simon.. I know crystal shapes are caused by their molecular structure. They are caused by natural processes and I'm not refuting that. It still doesn't alter the evidence in my eyes. I don't believe each individual tree was created, no. I do believe that someone created the 'foundation' blocks at a microscopic level and set the process off. As much as people talk about diseases and things going wrong in nature, I see far more going right. What about all the incredible symbiosis there is. I see disease as a process gone wrong. Bacteria and viruses can have beneficial effects in the right environment. Taken out of the right environment they can cause havoc.
I think the point is not whether one believes God exists or not, whether things evolved or not. It is whether one is 'deluded' or not. I agree that I am a person of faith but I do NOT agree for one minute that I am deluded. If anyone wants to believe I am then that's completely up to them.
After listening to a talented musician in Berlin, in 1920 Einstein gave him a hug and exclaimed publicly "Now I know there is a God in Heaven" Music, nature and God were all intwined for him.
Was Einstein deluded, or was he pretending to know things he didn't know?
IMO he had faith
Kate xx
This is a very interesting topic, in nature the formation of complex geometric shapes is wonderfully awe inspiring and confirms my bias that an itelligent Creator is responsible for this. I have faith it was God.
Kate, how would the Universe appear to be any different than it does now, without an intelligent designer? Would Fibonacci patterns not be seen? Would planets (clumps of matter) not form due to matter's mutual attraction to other matter (via gravity), or would planets NOT assume orbits around larger clumps of matter (eg Earth permanently "falling" towards the Sun, again thanks to gravity)?
You're simply 'begging the question', since that's kinda the point of evolution: we know that not all matter displays atrophy and disorder (chaos), but tends to self-organize such that local exceptions to chaos exist. Hence why solar systems form, planets assume orbits, etc. Looking at the pock-marked surface of the moon confirms our violent and turbulent cosmological chaotic roots, a record of less-peaceful times in our solar systems history.
But presupposing the existence of an intelligent God who designed all of this solves NOTHING, since it simply proposes the existence of a more-illogical and impossible condition to solve a merely improbable one (that becomes quite probable, given enough time passing since the Big Bang).
Adam
But presupposing the existence of an intelligent God who designed all of this solves NOTHING-adam
And your point being?
I do not wish to solve anything, there is no problem to solve. I am not presupposing anything. I simply have faith it was God. Love kate xx
What about:
'I am willing to accept that I may be deluded, but I don't think I am'
