Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree (page 4)

tornapart

This part stood out to me in your quote Adamah:-

Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness....

tec

and this:

As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

Peace,

tammy

adamah

TEC said-

The honest position for an atheist to take is that he sees no evidence for God.

Well, TEC, thank you for confirming that all atheists are honest then, since that's EXACTLY what someone is stating when they claim they're an atheist: they haven't been presented with sufficient perceivable evidence to justify believing in God.

(Although, I guess the 'all' claim is a bit much: it's possible they might be a lying theist who DENIES their gnostic experience of God and Heavens, and claims the title of 'atheist'; theists are known to fib, LOL!)

Since that is what (many) atheists claim, then there isn't even a conflict with that position/statement and somene of faith. One person may have or see evidence that another does not have, or see... and that would not make the object of evidence any less true. But the fact that (many) atheists have to call any position of strong faith dishonest and deluded... well, that is started to make me think that the claim/statement does not fit what some atheists truly think.

Yeah, here's where we go with the endless loop of your voice-hearing, since we really don't know that auditory hallucinations exist, and are well-known example sof what humans have mistakenly used as evidence to justify their belief in God.

OF course, such hallucinations are extremely common, and that's exactly why 'personal experience' has zero 'evidenciary value' in science (although it's extremely useful to form hypotheses, which can be TESTED and verified). In fact, scientists work to reduce or eliminate such biases from their experiments, since self-delusion and confirmation biases are well-known phenomena that interfere with determining reality.

Adam

KateWild

Adam,

Was Einstein hullucinating when he had an auditory experience and exclaimed in public "Now I know there is a God in Heaven" This was in 1920 when he was 40/41 yrs?

What is your opinion Adam?

Kate xx

adamah

Tornapart said-

This part stood out to me in your quote Adamah:- Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness....

Yes, Tornapart, you've learned from the Borg very well how to cherry-pick (CP).

You DO understand how it's considered intellectually-dishonest to CP, right? That's exactly WHY ex-JWs point out how the WT's practice of CP sentences from the writings of others to remove them from the context that offers a more-balanced view is wrong.

Re-read the article and my post again (esp the bit about the Flat Earthers, at the end), since it's true that delusions are commonly-associated with mental illness, but delusional beliefs are not conclusive on their own to confirm a specific diagnosis. Some people just believe weird things despite available evidence, and this guy wrote a book of it:

http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/

Michael Shermer has YouTube videos on the topic, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k

TEC said- As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

And?

TEC, did you see just a bunch of bad words, and respond to it? I mean, what part of that sentence do you object to? It's clarifying what a delusion is NOT, in the context of when it is considered "as a pathology".

BTW, do you know what the word 'pathology' means?

Adam

tec

Not going down that road when I did not bring it up, Adamah.

But truth is truth even if it has not yet been tested and verified by the scientific community. I have no problem with anyone who wants to go only with what has been tested and verified, and so accepted by the scientific community. It is 'safe'... albeit limited to the currently accepted scientific knowledge, which will change as evidence and tools to find newer evidence are discovered/created. (not necessarily reverse, but grow and expand and become fuller, and possibly shed new light - not a pun on the jw nu lite - on other things as well) That is not a rebuke against science at all. It is simply a fact.

But to tell someone of faith that the only honest statement that they can make is the one stated from the OP (or something similar to it) regarding being delusional... is asking them to be dishonest. When they won't submit... because they cannot without being dishonest... then they are often insulted or ridiculed or demeaned further.

Putting a spin on Laika's comment, I could say this:

"I am willing to accept that you believe I am deluded; but I cannot honestly agree with your belief."

Peace to you,

tammy

*edited to add that I probably could not say that to everyone; I do not believe that everyone who calls a person of faith deluded actually believes that, themselves.

KateWild

Are you ok Adam? You are surrounded by lots of posters that believe in God, who claim being called dellusional is unaccepable. Kate xx

tec

TEC, did you see just a bunch of bad words, and respond to it?

No. Delusion (as a pathology) is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information.

So having been in the wts does not have to mean that you were deluded... you just had false or incomplete information.

Peace,

tammy

adamah

Kate said-

Was Einstein hullucinating when he had an auditory experience and exclaimed in public "Now I know there is a God in Heaven" This was in 1920 when he was 40/41 yrs?

Kate, you've refused to examine the actual evidence as to what Einstein expressed as his views of religion and God throughout his life, and I even posted on it, yesterday.

Your insistence on forcing your concept of an intelligent God onto Einstein meets the criteria of delusional, at this point, and just because you leave the JWs doesn't mean you're suddenly handed the keys to rationality and skepticism: you've got to do the hard work on your own, since the powers of reasoning are stunted from a lack of challenge in the Borg, which demands following orders.

Fortunately, you're now in a position where you CAN do it, since you ARE free to let your mind grow by learning how to think rationally, but you're really standing in your own way by refusing to look at the evidence.... No one can do your work of thinking for you, NOR should they: it's the one task that cannot be delegated to others.

Adam

cofty

I see a complicated DNA code... It tells me that an intelligent designer is behind it - Tornapart

A perfect example of a superstitious delusion, and of the way faith is the enemy of the pursuit of knowledge.

Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree

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