Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree

by KateWild 96 Replies latest jw friends

  • KateWild

    So in conclusion, well for now anyway.............

    I believe in God, my beliefs stem from faith, I am not some blind follower. I do not have any dellusional idea's about God. Science confirms my bias. We are all bias. And I agree with Einstein when he said


    Kate xx

  • KateWild

    not easy to explain in Evolutionary terms, in a way that will satisfy biased Kate. LOL-phizzy

    That made me smile, but I would say scientific terms as a whole. Evolution is just one arm of science. There are many. Thanks for popping in to check on us kids. I hope you can praise me for my civility when you come back.

    Kate xx

  • clarity

    On the way out ...loved the vid ...thanks so much!

  • Phizzy

    Yes, thanks OTWO, I think everybody on this thread, well on JWN actually, should view that vid. , very incisive and clear thinking. We could then perhaps stop arguing about words and how we use them, ....perhaps.

    Dear Kate, you are never less than civil, whatever you post, the little kisses at the end mean we simply cannot get mad at you.

    I see you haven't sorted out the Intelligent Design question yet, come on guys, I know the two camps have benn fighting this one out for years, but surely JWNers can lead the way in finishing the debate ?

    I see no evidence that stands scrutiny for Intelligent Design, and I see a hell of a lot of evidence against.

    For example,would an Intelligent Designer have put the Play Area so close the the Sewage/Urine Disposal units in the Human Body ? (I am naughty ,Tee Hee)

  • tec

    I watched the video also. I think I understand why some get so mad when anyone says that faith is based on evidence... because the entire talk was based around that being false.

    The guy (sorry didn't catch his name) said that faith is belief without evidence. If this is not the case, and it is NOT the case, then every argument based on this no longer has legs!

    However, I watched the whole thing, right up until the end where he also stated that he considers faith to be a form of mental illness. (I am speaking from memory; I watched it earlier this morning, so I will go back and see if this is actually what he said)

    But he also said some things that are true.

    Faith does not equal morality. He is correct on that. Faith does not mean that someone is good (implying then that someone who does not have faith is bad)

    As for his five assertions that he made, I have never attempted to use any of them out of the ten he claimed to have (or even the two other that were brought up... well, I have said that it might not be cruel to pull someone's belief - right or wrong - out from under them and leave them with no hope, causing them pain. I mean, if their faith is strong upon the Rock who is the Truth, then this is not going to be so easily done anyway. But I was thinking about those whose belief - right or wrong - get them through the day)

    I agree with him also that faith and hope are not the same things. In fact, he made some of the very same arguments that I have made talking to others. These two things are not synonymous. Faith cannot be based on hope... that just makes it another word for hope... but hope can be built upon and made sure by faith.

    I LOVED the older guy who gets up at the end and makes the excellent point that his suggestion that atheists replace the word faith with 'pretending to know things you don't know' assumes that one IS pretending and deliberately deceiving. I think the speaker glossed over that most excellent point. He even said that he doesn't know how someone would prove if someone is pretending or not. So... even without knowing that this is true... he still wants to go ahead and promote this unproven statement?


    Peace to you,


  • OnTheWayOut

    Well, many are pretending to others. Some are pretending to themselves.

    Imagine some backwards people "knowing" that the earth is the center of the universe or that Gaia has spoken to them.
    There will often be some who actually believe that kind of stuff. They have faith. In other words, they are pretending to themselves that they know what they do not know.

  • Phizzy

    We can only really know that something is true if it is supported by evidence that can be tested, and that will satisfy a Jury of experts who are also sceptical of the claims.

    Anything less than that is simply pretending to know.

    Tammy makes the claim above that she has evidence, would that evidence satisfy a Jury of Cofty's ? I doubt it.

  • Oubliette

    "Certainty" is a term that we humans like to bandy about as if we know what that means. But the reality is we can never really be certain of anything. I'm very sure of this!

  • cofty

    the reality is we can never really be certain of anything.

    I am certain that the earth is not supported by a giant turtle.

  • Oubliette

    Cofty: I am certain that the earth is not supported by a giant turtle.

    Reductio ad absurdum. Thanks for playing along!

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