Laika, nah that statement is too self - demeaning. No one wants to accept they are deluded, they educate themselves so they are not. Love kate xx
Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree
by KateWild 96 Replies latest jw friends
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tornapart
Laika- What about 'I am willing to accept that I may be deluded, but I don't think I am'
No... because that would mean I would be willing to accept that I am mentally ill. And I'm not!
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Laika
Tornapart, do you think you were deluded as a JW? Would you call that mental illness now?
Kate, it was a personal statement, I was confident I wasn't deluded as a JW, but evidence suggests I probably was. As an exJW I find I can't bring myself to certainty on many subjects. I'm learning to live with uncertainty and inconsistency...
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DATA-DOG
There is no reason to attack people with faith in a Creator. As has been mentioned, an Atheist cannot prove that God does not exist. At the same time a believer cannot offer anything but reasons based on faith, along with anecdotal evidence. Those criteria are not good enough for the scientific community. In turn, Science is limited in that it can only comment on what is testable or falsifiable.
I think the frustration comes from the lack of honest conversation as Kate mentioned. Imagine that you meet someone who belongs to the Spiderwick Order. Their main text is the Spiderwick Field Guide. Despite their professed adherence to the Guide as the ultimate source of infallible wisdom, they insist that Pink Unicorns exist. Overtime their following grows until we have the Revised Order of the Pink Unicorn Brotherhood, the only source of truth concerning unicorns. They virtually worship the Pink Unicorn although no such creature is ever mentioned in the Field Guide. They even go so far as to excommunicate all who doubt the existence of The Great Pink Unicorn. They also revised the guide to suit their beliefs in the Great Pink Unicorn.
Unicorns (Family: Monoceratidae)[edit]
Revered for centuries as one of the most magical of all Creatures, the Unicorn is perhaps best known for its healing qualities]. The touch of a Unicorn will cure disease and purify liquids. For this reason, Unicorns were hunted and slain. Cups, plates and utensils that could render poison harmless were carved from Unicorn horns. Shoes and belts of Unicorn hide cured fevers, and the ground-up liver of a Unicorn was believed to cure a myriad of illnesses.
Named for the single, twisting horn on their brows, Unicorns have slender, Deer-like bodies, long necks and tails that end in a puff of fur. Unicorns are solitary Creatures, each one staking out a large tract of land and meeting only for the purpose of mating.
Despite their beneficent nature, Unicorns are formidable when concerned. They are exceedingly fast and their horns are very sharp, making them a match for lions and even Dragons.
Revised Field Guide [ Released at the AGM of the Order of the Pink Unicorn Brotherhood]
Unicorns (Family: Monoceratidae)[edit]
Revered for centuries as one of the most magical of all Creatures, the [Pink]* Unicorn is perhaps best known for its healing qualities]. The touch of a [Pink] Unicorn will cure disease and purify liquids. For this reason, [Pink] Unicorns were hunted and slain. Cups, plates and utensils that could render poison harmless were carved from [Pink] Unicorn horns. Shoes and belts of [Pink] Unicorn hide cured fevers, and the ground-up liver of a [Pink] Unicorn was believed to cure a myriad of illnesses.
Named for the single, twisting horn on their brows, [Pink] Unicorns have slender, Deer-like bodies, long necks and tails that end in a puff of fur. [Pink] Unicorns are solitary Creatures, each one staking out a large tract of land and meeting only for the purpose of mating.
Despite their beneficent nature, [Pink] Unicorns are formidable when concerned. They are exceedingly fast and their horns are very sharp, making them a match for lions and even Dragons.
* One Unicorn scholar states that pink is the most likely color of the original Unicorn. References to the Great Pink Unicorn were likely removed from the Field Guide by superstitious Unicorn scribes who felt that uttering the color pink was too sacred. Therefore the Order of the Pink Unicorn Brotherhood has restored the sacred color to it's rightful place in the Field Guide.
Believe what you will. Just don't contradict or alter what is said in your own "Field Guide", and then try to make me the villain.
DD
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Comatose
Ah Baxter (Laika) you are so wise, like a little furry Buddha.
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tec
Why are not believers simply honest and say "What I believe in is Delusion, but I choose to continue". I would respect that honesty,
Everything tornapart said, regarding the above being DISHONEST.
Because making that statement would not be honest for me either... it would be a lie. Why should I have to lie for someone else to think I am being honest?
The honest position for an atheist to take is that he sees no evidence for God. Since that is what (many) atheists claim, then there isn't even a conflict with that position/statement and somene of faith. One person may have or see evidence that another does not have, or see... and that would not make the object of evidence any less true. But the fact that (many) atheists have to call any position of strong faith dishonest and deluded... well, that is started to make me think that the claim/statement does not fit what some atheists truly think.
Peace,
tammy
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tornapart
@Laika. Not deluded, no... misled, yes.
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KateWild
I was confident I wasn't deluded as a JW, but evidence suggests I probably was-Laika
For me I wasn't deluded, I was pointing out errors in policies and how they conflicted with the bible, and also bringing attention to hypocritical actions of some elders and pioneers.
So as a JW I was not deluded, I just didn't realise that many were, my loved ones are not though, they are trapped. They see the real problems and issues, but simply put they are trapped.
Love Kate xx
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KateWild
DD-funny stuff Love Kate xx
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adamah
Where'd you guys get the idea that all delusions are associated with mental disorders? It's just not so, and you're reading something into the definition that isn't there, by assuming it.
Wikipedia for delusion is correct:
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. [1]
There it is: by definition, if you continue to believe despite "superior" evidence to the contrary, your belief is a delusion. If you are a flat-Earther in 2013 (yes, there is a Flat Earth Society, with 100's of members) that IS a delusional belief, since any reasonable person accepts the Earth is a spherical, a globe.
But note in the definition that there's NO MENTION of mental illness.
The article even explains how delusions are NOT diagnostic for any particular disease or condition:
As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception. Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders including schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression.
If you're a member of the Flat Earth Society in 2013, while it may not serve as proof of one's insanity (i.e. a person may just be pulling everyone's leg, with a perverse sense of humor), it also doesn't exactly serve as very compelling evidence of one's sanity and grasp on reality.
Adam