Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends

  • Comatose

    Another one bites the dust.

  • zound

    I'd still submit that you DO interpret scripture Tec - there is countless examples of you arguing (usually with Adamah) about the particular wording of an obscure scripture or something - arguing from your perspective what the scripture means (so that it fits in with your worldview). If this isn't interpretation what is?

    On a macro level - I interpret the entire bible as a mix of made up bullshit, plagorized bullshit, bullshit based on a very small grain of truth, and bullshit produced by ignorant people of an ignorant time.

    You interpretation is (okay your interpretation is complicated as you find ways of excusing various parts of the bibel etc) - but in general your interpretation is that it is true, jesus existed, did the things it claims etc etc.

    Am I missing something here?

  • Comatose

    It's not an interpretation if "Jesus tells her" that what it means. Silly Zound...

  • zound

    Lol comotose.

    The voices in my head (otherwise known as my thoughts) are telling me that the bible is an unreliable source of knowledge about reality.

  • jgnat

    I don't believe it is my right or my responsibiity to change your mind. I thought however you might be interested in my progression of thought. This took over two years of deep reflection, by the way, so I don't think you can expect an instant answer.

    1. The books of the bible do not offer a cohesive message. It is therefore not inspired, and imperfect. It is not a manual. Try " In the Beginning : A New Interpretation of Genesis" by Karen Armstrong. It's a fast read; only 208 pages.
    2. It does not make sense that God would provide an inspired book that contains all wisdom needed for mankind, and fail to add to it for 2,000 years. Especially considering that mankind, all on its own, has progressed its concepts of jurisprudence, democracy, women's rights, and the end to slavery. Might we have much to learn from great thinkers from the last 2,000 years?
    3. A hero of mine, Albert Schweitzer, deliberately and patiently shows in his scholarly work, The Quest of the Historical Jesus, that Jesus is a failed prophet.
  • snare&racket

    The last 4 months on has been a groundhog day of stale mate.

    This same issue/debate/verbal masturbation has reoccured under different guises several times over.

    Why don't we just reduce it to asking questions, sincere and open minded questions! Enough with the personal attacks and assumptions and no more making up facts and guessing at history and science. Anything not researched and tested is irrelevant and unconvincing, its fine if stated as much. Want your opinion to be worth more... Do some research, investigation, experimentation and publish it. But making up shit is not equal to suxh work.

    If we are to get anywhere, even as a body of people on a forum, we have to at least have these basic premises for communicsting about beliefs.

    snare x

  • wallsofjericho


    everything came from nothing. Exactly what's theists believe about gods coming to be, except god came from nothing but never had a beginning. if everything comes from nothing then there must at least be a begining. Therefore I vote atheist

  • snare&racket

    There is no evidence of s god, just a bronze age book that says god made everything.....

    That is all there is to even suggest a god! I could write on a piece of paper that I made the universe and that I am infinitely powerful and humble and henceremained quiet amongst my creation. That piece of paper and its claims is equal to the claims of the bible and any other non proven claim... It is of no value!

    To those that claim I have no followers or powers or miracles to justify my claim, well I would add on the note that I value faith over knowing and so present no evidence. See how easy it is.... Certainly easier than REAL research.

    Ignoring all that, there are people slive today who claim divinity and have followers and they attest to seeing miracles and godly acts. I dispute these 100% but still, it is impossible to say none of them happened, so therefore any of these modern deities provide more evidence of their divinity than the bible.... Yet who here follows any one of these modern day gods? ... Zero.

    People believe what they want to beleive OR they accept thst the evidence and its scientific explination is the best we can do right now.

  • tec

    at least tammy doesn't tell us she's jesus christ (peace be uppon him) reincarnated.

    I can guarantee you, j.hofer, that I would get far LESS attention if i DID claim this, lol.

    Mainly because no one would believe that. It has no support. The Spirit being alive and speaking is another matter; that has support in what is written (ot and the witness testimonies of the NT, as well as from others throughout time regardless of whether they were written about in the bible or not)

    The problem is, while there ARE conditions KNOWN to result from genetic defects, there's also conditions which result from exposure to pathogens which has NOTHING TO DO WITH SIN: those are NON-GENETIC DISEASES resulting from infection by 'pathogens'.


    Leprosy is exactly SUCH an example, since it's caused by a gram-negative bacteria. NOT SIN (and Jesus cured leprosy by forgiving sins).

    Yes, but this flesh is also prone/vulnerable to such things.

    An angel (spirit being) is not vulnerable to pathogens or genetic diseases. That vessel (spirit body) does not get sick and die, as it does not have sin and death in it. Our vessel (physical body, as it is now) does have sin and death in it... otherwise we would NOT get sick and we would not die.

    Now, I DID miss part of what you were saying, and I am being reminded by my Lord to go back and address this.

    I take full responsibility for missing it, because my Lord did point out that you were saying peoples illnesses were being healed by forgiveness - which is incorrect - and I dealt only with the issue of sin being in the flesh, and so that being the reason our flesh gets sick, ages, dies. So I am sorry, truly, because we went off on a tangent because I did not listen, and I did not fully read your words and break them down. (one of the reasons I DO break things down is so NOT to miss things like this) So I must address that issue, because it is separate from sin and death in the flesh.

    That was his schtick: he supposedly healed by forgiving sins (where the standard cure for leprosy performed by the Temple priests and recorded in Leviticus is tantamount to a voodoo ritual performed by a witch doctor in the Caribbean Islands, involving pigeon blood, shaking of rattles, etc.

    He did not heal by forgiving sins. He healed by the power in Him, as is shown regarding the woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. He said, "Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me." (Luke 8: 43-47)... and according to the faith those who wanted to be healed had in them. (Daughter, your faith has healed you, go in peace. Luke 8: 48)

    Every single incident regarding healing had to do with FAITH to BE healed, and the power that Christ had TO heal those of faith.

    So, the question is, is that an example of 'truth' which you 'know', after Jesus told you a TRUTH?

    I gave you as much as I am able understand... to get a sense of the truth.

    Because though there are things we cannot yet bear (understand) He can help us to be able to grasp/get the sense of something. That is why I said sin and death in the flesh it is SIMILAR to something being written upon our DNA (something that is in the flesh).

    Wait a minute: wouldn't you simply look to the one who IS the source of TRUTH and simply "KNOW"?

    Depends. Might need to learn some basic addition first, before leaping straight to the calculus.

    (milk, before meat)

    TEC said- In any case, the means of creating them according to their kind is not described, so to be dogmatic that it means God created them 'poof' as a finished work, is not justified.

    And how exactly do you KNOW that? Is that "truth" gotten from Jesus, or are you just simply making crap up again?

    Is there anything in what I stated there that is untrue?

    Because we can see from the account - black and white - that the means of "creating them according to their kind" is not described.

    Peace to you,


  • cofty

    I am being reminded by my Lord to go back and address Lord did point out that you were saying peoples illnesses were being healed by forgiveness- Tammy

    This is the sort of pretentious nonsense that makes the forum unappealing to intelligent people who care about truth, knowledge and reality.

    I have no wish to be involved in conversations with wannabe spirit mediums but there is no escaping it, it is imposed on all of us and we are supposed to be polite and pretend it is valid.

    Totally sick of it.

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