Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    DS211: did noah bring all plants on board too?

    An answer on a pro-flood website rambles on for a few paragraphs before getting to the point. Then it starts like this:

    The logical argument for the fact that plants survived the Flood is actually quite simple.
    The Bible states there was a worldwide Flood.
    We see plants today.
    Therefore plants survived the Flood.

    It's a lot like talking to Tammy except she invokes "The Lord" instead of the Bible telling her.

  • DS211

    So more circular reasoning...but the question is how? And did they survive in finished form or did they.....evolve.

  • adamah

    "Predatorial plants?" The carnivorous plants clearly had to be fed insects (like ants, needed for the anteaters!) while they were on the ark:

    Here's a cartoon which pokes fun at the sheer impossibility from the requirements of the animals, alone (he doesn't get to the plants):

    It's silly to sweat the details, though, since all such concerns are quickly dismissed by believers as miracles ("God Dun It!").


  • adamah

    ADAM said- Lemme guess: your family was reform Jews?- adam

    KATE said- (you miss spell "let me")

    Yeah, it wasn't accidental (although you're right: I should've added a 'sic' to it to indicate it was intentional, and done for style).

    KATE said- But no I was not in a Reform sect of Judaism. There are probably 5,000 different Ordthodox sects worldwide. I was not in an Orthodox sect either. I have family who are in a range of different Ordthodox sects.

    Kate, if I might ask, what denomination was your upbringing as a child? In another thread, you described your father as an agnostic Jew, which is more consistent with the more-liberal accepting denominations of Judaism, eg reformers.

    But you say it wasn't reform or orthodox: certainly not 'conservative', with your father's avowed agnosticism; more importantly, your account of the lack of attention to the ritual of hand-washing in the Gemorah is hardly consistent with conservative Judaism, which attempts to conserve the 'traditions' of Judaism, esp since you became a baptized member of the JWs (which is even more heretical than becoming a member of the evangelical movement, "Jews for Jesus").

    Although I suppose there are other possibilities (eg reconstructionists, Karaites, etc), I'm confused here....

    KATE said- The tradition of hand washing will be in the Talmud or Mishna I forget now. But it is an oral law. The point being there is no "proper" way to execute this stupid nonsense ritual. I haven't watched your video, but to many sects of Orthodox Jews they would conclude this man is a Reform Jew by his attire. I persoanlly don't give a smurf what he wishes to label himself.

    Kinda making my point for me, aren't you?

    By his attire alone, one could assume he's not orthodox (more along the lines of reformer), but even he's showing how to perform the tradition properly?

    KATE said- Doctors hand washing technique is the proper way to wash hands.

    EXACTLY! And if you watched the video, you'd see that the ritual involves raising the hands to let the dirty water run AWAY from the hands, analogous to the way doctors raise their hands to shoulder height to avoid 'contaminating the sterile field'.

    Here's an animated video which shows the prayer that is recited while washing (no talking allowed):

    KATE said- Adam, How will this help DS become an atheist?

    I'm wondering why you'd enter the thread if you have to ask that? Didn't you read the prior interactions which lead up to the discussion of handwashing, involving Jesus' ignorance of bacteria and viruses, saying this about washing hands before eating, in Mark 7:

    When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”

    (Cool, as Jesus just gave Xians his blessing to smoke tobacco, weed, crack, drink vodka, LSD, etc.)

    Jesus clearly didn't know much about biology, since the man-made tradition of handwashing before eating (and after defacation, touching the nose, etc) which he pooh-poohed is one of the few public-health measures instituted by Jews that later were validated by modern science as being correct, and hardly "burdensome", but life-saving (handwashing, along with washing dishes/pots/pans/utensils, and quarantining the sick: all are sound practices, proven methods of combatting the spread of food-borne disease that we take for granted today, since we KNOW better).

    Kate, I know it's is easy to get lost in the forest for the trees (esp when the people start shot-gunning, rather than limiting to sequential points), but it's best to read prior posts to engage in a meaningful discussion....


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