I am still not ignoring the point. They are going to a mediator OTHER than Christ (who is the truth, the image, the word... the ONLY mediator between man and god)... and so are following the mediator they have chosen to put their faith in. (the pope, the priest, the GB, the RCC, the 'whatever'). But their mediator contradicts Christ... the ONLY mediator... and so that should be a clue that they are not listening to Christ.
I don't get instructions from god/jesus... through voices/bible.
I listen to Christ, period. Not through any other medium. There is no one in that organization who will make that claim. They make vague 'holy spirit' guidance (that reverses, and such). But even if someone DID make that claim (and for you or anyone else reading, even though I make that claim)... you should test what is being said against Christ and against love. And you should never follow another person even if they are listening to and following Christ and the things they hear and share ARE true... you should follow CHRIST. For yourself.
No one who says, "come to ME... or listen to ME"... is speaking so from what they have learned from Christ or God. False christs say come to me... witnesses to Christ say go to Christ, and, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life" (which life is something you receive from Christ... not from men)
What you claim to be from god ofcourse provide a better guide than what come out from brooklyn; i never claimed anything else. The issue is once one allow oneself to think one get instructions from God that change ones ability to assess and reason about the moral content of the instructions. I think thats an important point to be made in the light that there are plenty of people who "recieve" less sensible instructions than you do.
Okay, I believe I understand what you are saying.
It is true that some may do this, but it should not be this way. Because if something heard is ever against Christ and against love... then it is NOT true, and the person hearing should absolutely question and/or disregard what was heard, as coming from another source, even if that is just a lie that they want to believe based on their own desires or lack of love or anger or hatred, etc.
As to the testing bit, well, its quite plain you do not test your voices in any meaningful way. As far asking me to test it, I just asked God to turn of the light if you were correct, the light did not turn off, ergo...
But that is not the testing that I have spoken of. Test what is heard against Christ, against love, and against what is written (beginning with Christ of course because He is the truth).
That is not going to mean anything to an atheist. I understand that. But for someone who has faith in Christ, those are the means to test if something someone has shared comes from (or at least could have come from) God (through Christ). Or if it is againt Christ and love, then that person has spoken presumptiously and from their own reasoning or from another 'father'.
I never said such an evil thing and I do not believe it is the case at all. Please read what I wrote again and consider the accusation.
I reread. Sorry, Bohm, I misunderstood. Your point is to the question of the presence of evil. That is a big thread. I can go there with you, but probably already have done so somewhere. The simple point is that it is man's decisions that have led to suffering such as the above, and other conditions like starvation, wars, many diseases, etc. Man's lack of love for his fellow man. Man's desire to rule over his fellow man. Man's NOT listening to Christ and God and their instruction. But listening rather to his own ambitions, his own needs, his own desires... all to the detriment of his fellow man.
What one considers to be right or wrong.
Okay, but then I don't really understand what you mean by me being able to convince someone (of what?) if they have a less sensible moral intuition... Oh. You mean I might convince someone that they are getting their morals from Christ, but their morals are terrible and cause harm?
All I can say to that... is that if someone listens to PART of the message (Christ is alive and speaks)... and ignores the FULL message (that nothing Christ ever speaks will be against love or Christ (and one can test against what He is written to have said and done), and that He will never tell you to harm another person, but rather to forgive and to show mercy; as He did the same)... well, this is someone who is still NOT listening, and is just acting out on what is in them, using Christ as an excuse. Again, no one should listen to them.
Peace to you,