Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon

    I don't think activism works against JWs as they are born and bred to be immune to it so yes, I hope most people are against activism and it is generally more associated with negative and aggressive approaches.

    What questioning / leaving JWs need is support, advice and understanding. How is that a bad thing? A friendly comment and 'we understand' can help many more than reams of clever words. Heck, most JWs don't know what their current beliefs are anyway so how do you reason what is right and wrong? You don't ... you reach their heart and appeal to their emotion.

    The irony is it ends up being more effective at helping people leave successfully than activism does and so does the WTS more harm.

    I'm sure there is some awesome zen saying about not facing a superior force head on in open battle that would apply.

  • Simon

    BTW: I'm not saying interesting and well thought out articles aren't necessary, just that they are not the thing that causes people to leave but rather supply information for people already leaving so could maybe be written with that in mind.

    Like most people leaving, many go mad learning everything they can. Information sites like jwfacts are invaluable to help people learn what they need and not have doubt's or skip back into the WTS clutches.

  • prologos

    WT teaching is bound to get more bizarre with time, and sites like this will provide great humour, entertainment that people expect from the media,

    and "our" sites are providing that. thank you.

    a smile, grin, laugh are so liberating.

  • tornapart

    I don't think activism really works. Put the info out there and let people come to it of their own accord. Trying to 'bring down' the WTS is never going to work.

    Strong JWs will never read 'apostate' literature, watch 'apostate' videos. or chat to them outside a convention. I'm fully out mentally and I recognised some (from their youtube videos), waiting outside the convention. Even I didn't have the nerve to engage them, as I was with friends.

    I think they are all stepping stones. A JW begins to have doubts, maybe over many years that he forces down or to the back of his mind. Then one day there is just one too many. This happened to me...

    The 'overlapping generation' was that one too many. However for a year and a half after hearing it, I kept it to the back of my mind. I still wouldn't look at anything 'apostate' on the internet. What I did look at was Wikipedia. I found out about Ray Franz, my curiosity was piqued. 'There won't be any harm in reading his book' I thought, 'no one need know'. I couldn't get it through the post for fear of being discovered but I found a pdf. I read it and the rest is history. After that I had no problem reading JWfacts. I found JWstruggle and became friends with JJ...Eric (RayPublisher on here). Found a few more friends, found this place and started posting. I've watched many youtube videos, some I find thought provoking, others just seem to be a rant, which just turns me off completely. To my mind, the most effective are the ones done with respect, intelligence and thought.

    The ones whose attention needs to be grabbed are not the hard line dyed-in-the-wool JWs, but the ones with doubts who are looking for answers. The gentler the approach, the more effectiveness it will have.

  • Vidiot

    I wonder how many XJWs became convinced by evidence showing the WTS was wrong because they were desperately looking for evidence that the WTS was right (and couldn't find it).

  • tornapart

    Just want to clarify what I meant by not thinking activism works. I didn't mean it doesn't work at all, just that it doesn't work with JWs who are completely under the mind control of the WTS.

    Once someone starts to have any kind of doubt, it's great to have something in place to read, look at, watch etc! Kudos to all those who have websites, blogs, forums, video channels etc. that have helped all of us in one way or another!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I find the assertion that JWN is antiactivism laughable. Members here have their own websites that provide valuable factual information. It is silly to replicate the same resources. People carve out their own special projects. I learned so much about the Witnesses just from coming here. Not blundering ahead without a strategy is wise.

    How many books and articles have been written by members here. Terry does his outreach to newcomers who might be beginning to question Witness belief. Altho we can be vicious, we can be very supportive, too.

    I see activism on the threads here. Someone asks for help from people who have gone before. People post a range of options.

    We all have different talents and ways of interacting with the world. Holding signs and being so rude with screaming that people believe you are wackier than the Witnesses is not likely to convince anyone still a Witness. Persecution causes people to tighen the wagon train circle. It unites rather than divides. My favorite activism here is the parodies of the WT. I could watch them all day. They are so good. Somehow it takes true talent to do comedy. Altho I've been out for decades, I screamed with delight at the phrasing of the language and boredom shown in one parody.

  • Phizzy

    Humour is a powerful weapon, well aimed and well done satire, parody and lampoonery have always had a bigger effect, and a longer lasting one, than direct action.

    It cuts right to the soul of the members of whatever is having the piss taken out of it, nobody, especially those who are full of their own importance, likes to look silly.

    The Totalitarian States of the past and present fear the power of humour, and will arrest and disappear those who use it if they can.

    The WT is a Totalitarian religion, but they do not have the power to stop what we may publish in various media, and they do not have the power to stop every JW from seeing the work, the more it is used, the better.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    I tried to read Cedars thread but I can't click on the link, or can I copy and paste for some reason......:(

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    Ambient abuse. Narcissism. Narcissistic supply. Megalomaniacs. Yada yada yada.

    Try 30 years of ambient abuse and you will be fucked up in the head too.

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