Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends


    The clearest sign yet JWN is becoming anti-activisim.....John Cedars

    The "Road to WBT$ Destruction" is Littered with "Wanna-be exJW Super Stars"..

    Everyone of Them have Failed to bring the WBT$ Down..

    "Wanna-be exJW Super Stars" used to be Demi-Gods in Watchtower World..

    Why not in ex JW World?!!..

    They could Gather a Huge Following couldn`t they?!!..


    ......Cedars Ignores the Decades of..

    Experience and Wisdom found on JWN..

    .................... photo mutley-ani1.gif ...OUTLAW

  • redvip2000

    I'm convinced that you cannot reason with anyone about religious belief because it is not based on reason or any logical argument whatsoever.

    Very true. I have made this point countless times. It's an emotional attachment. It's almost like when a women is in love with a man who is a complete $hithead. Now, everybody can see it but her. You can tell her a thousand times and she still won't see it.

    It is only when something happens that hurts her feelings that finally she realizes that he is a shithead and allows herself to see the truth. Many of us, have had this moment in the witness world, where the organization hurts you personally and finally makes you begin considering that it's not all you thought it was..

  • adamah

    redvip said-

    It's almost like when a women is in love with a man who is a complete $hithead. Now, everybody can see it but her. You can tell her a thousand times and she still won't see it.

    A point made in this video:


  • cedars

    Thanks OUTLAW, spoken like a true pitbull. All hail JWN, whatever makes you happy...

    I'm grateful to Simon for being so honest in confirming his thoughts on activism. I obviously don't share them, but it explains a lot - to me anyway. I would rather do what's best for all of us and avoid any future confrontations on here. I don't feel particularly welcome any longer, especially now it's so obvious that my views are fundamentally at odds with those of the owner. Activism does work, and you only need to ask myself, Barb, or Eric over on JWstruggle and they will all tell you about the unmanageable volume of emails they've had from people who have woken up due to the work they're doing. And it's not just people who were going to wake up anyway. Never underestimate what damage a few seconds inadvertently clicking on the wrong website or video will do. Google is a great leveller.

    Folks - it feels like we've moved in different directions. I confess this is sad, but I'm not bitter. To each their own, or "horses for courses" as besty said at the beginning.

    I'm grateful to this forum for the support it gave me two years ago during my first forays into activism, and I will try to remember it for that.

    Bye guys.


  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Some of us are professional activists. It is not two years but decades in various places. I don't want the WT destroyed. It would not be American or consistent with the interests of ex-Witnesses. It can be constrained by a public education campaign. Good luck in bringing it down to its knees. I hope you prove me wrong.

    First, the law is against you. Second, you have not studied Gandhi or anyone who brought down an institution. I would suggest reading books about the American civil righs movement. Labor history is another area. No one just shouted, "hey, let us organize." There was education and sophistication. As a high school and college activist, I screamed out slogans. We received press coverage. The Viet Nam War did not end. Finally, we attended law school or received MBA degrees. Our professors taught us about the struggles of previous generations so we could learn from their wins and losses. We learned about power. Next, we acquired power within our professions and communities. We ran for public office and won.

    If I want to change something, I research it for months. Knowing who chairs committees, how money is raised, etc. is crucial. Winning power is nice.

    Simon has done more than anyone you cited to help former Witnesses and those still in. This forum is tangible. Let us see your results. Posting here is activism.



    You attack anyone who doesn`t agree with you..You alienate the very people your trying to attract..

    Fearon does the same thing..If you don`t agree with him your a WBT$ Agent,or Gay..

    Look at what you wrote:

    The clearest sign yet JWN is becoming anti-activisim.....John Cedars

    It wasn`t meant to be complementary..You attacked this forum and it`s members..

    You`ve drawn a Line in the Sand..Then Whined when I Crossed it..


    Comparing yourself to Barbara Anderson is a Joke..

    Barb has Helped a lot of People..What she does Isn`t about Her..And..

    She doesn`t Attack People with a Different Approach to Dealing with the WBT$..

    ................................ photo mutley-ani1.gif...OUTLAW

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    mind blown: That's not a link, it's just a screenshot. Look up his Facebook page and scroll down to that link he posted and then read the comments. A friend of mine saw that he singled out myself, Simon, Band On The Run, and James Woods (an odd combination, but whatever) as 'anti-activists' and since I was mentioned, I thought I would go have a look-see. Well, Captain Crunch didn't take too well to my last post as he so often does and has responded to me in the same comment thread accusing me in not so many words of stalking him. I just have a habit of wanting to read something whenever my name is brought up and especially when I am labelled.

    As to that label... anti-activist. I do not consider myself one of those, but rather one who recognises the relative futility of the task at hand, not that many people have so openly declared that they are 'bringing down the WT', but rather that those who feel that sending the GB letters or making offers to meet them in an attempt for reform is not a realistic method. Videos and blogs are great and are certainly entertaining, but I question the effectiveness of these methods. There might be a JW or two that are convinced, but that medium was not the cause or effect of the JW leaving. They already had it within themself and took it upon themself to search for the truth. Personally I think talking to people who have been in the same circumstances such as the many here on JWN has a greater affect. People coming out do not want to be overloaded with information when they likely have already come to the same conclusions. A PM from someone that says 'hey, want to talk? Sounds like we have some stories to share. Here's my number...' and 'you live close to me. Let's meet up for some coffee' might be more what the doctor ordered for people coming out of such a traumatic experience. I advocate an approach on a more personal level. Yet, these are just my opinions and others might desire a more 'activist' stance. That's all fine. But it appears that some on the activist side are more prone to calling others WT apologists when they express a different opinion. I make no apologies for WT and have indeed posted likewise and through PM.

  • RayPublisher

    I have personally had many people (over a dozen easily) message me just in the last year of doing this and say that watching one of my YouTube videos and/or reading my blog helped them to come out of WT.

    Notice the operative phrase is "helped them". It didn't work like some magic pill to deprogram them. As has been mentioned, a person has to be searching for answers, become a critical thinker, etc. But when people get near that tipping point and have the courage to type in a search on Google or YouTube then these resources may help them immensely.

    I used to try and target asleep JWs with my stuff but not anymore. I would rather focus on ones that are fading and contemplating leaving the movement, ie, ones that want help to escape WT. Here's a recent example of a some that were helped by watching these videos from my friend Shyla:


  • KateWild

    RP- poignant YT

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    Cedars for you to put yourself in the same activism catagory as Barbara is your ego talking.

    Barbara's approach is quality and intelligently provocative ..........yours is ego ridden and smear.....remember Mr President how many times on the AWAA site you mentioned you were the President......jezzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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