Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon Templar
    Simon Templar

    I agree with almost all of the comments. My thought is that a person leaves when:

    1. They are ready, and not a minute before.

    2. They need a personal reason which is external to them such as, a Nazi in the BOE who is too demanding of them and pushes them too hard, or a CO who does the same thing-heavy handed unloving demanding pushing/watching/scruteny,etc or, when their kids have been maligned or marked inappropriately in some quasi-inquisition, or people realize that the end hasn't come and they have been waiting for decades (I know some waiting for 55-60 years) this is linked to 1914+100 years-how long do you wait? or actually how stupid are you?

    3. The embarassment of the door-to-door work. Going door-to-door for decades with little result in the past 20 years or so. In the developed world the growth is practically nill. Any expansion of the religion is happening in the third world. Go back to the same neighborhoods with the latest Kingdom News Tract and tell the same householder that "the end is coming, but this time we mean it!"

    4. The demonization of formal education. How can anyone be expected in the 21st Century to earn an average living in the US/Canada/Europe without a formal University Education or some specialized training in something? Forget about getting rich through an education. Just earning a living. If you live in Borneo you may be okay.

    The control system used by the WTS has constructed a platform to launch people out of the religion. If its not corrected, eventually the Organization will collapse by attrition. Apostate former members have little or nothing to do with it. The main causes of disenchantment and exodus are internally created and self-inflicted.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    The problem with making videos is that you are mostly preaching to your own choir. True JWs are likely to turn it off by reflex once the doctrine is questioned. As a result the most that ex-JW videos do is to create a back-slapping atmosphere in the community and a chorus of 'well-done!' and 'Bravo!'. If you seek prominence for yourself within the exJW world, then this would be the way to go. Whilst it could find a JW seriously considering their doubts, the fact remains that there already is a wealth of information and online resources about JWs that are easily accessible. There is hardly a point of information that has not already been covered by other more connected and respected sources. People need to want the information first and be open to it for anything to be of use. Once the desire is there, it simply becomes a matter of connecting the dots. The whole 'let's make a video on youtube poking fun at Witness doctrine' or 'let's protest the assemblies with insulting slogans' scene is about as effective as a jilted ex-lover sending the current companion all these insulting emails and wild accusations regarding the ex. The most common reaction is going to be 'get a life, you need to move on'. The desire for information needs to be there first, and not the other way round.

  • TTATTelder

    I think there is a "straw that breaks the camel's back" factor. I think all JW's are carrying at least some doubts and have noticed their fair share of discrepancy.

    It is just a matter of time before many of them have simply had enough. This may be when something bad happens to them or to someone else at the hands of the elders or whatever the case may be.

    I just believe that there are always cracks in the foundation before this happens. Otherwise they would go along the whole "Jehovah is just allowing this to happen for some reason" routine as many "faithful" do.

    I will add this: This new light business is creating cracks for many people. It also reminds people of their old doubts (generation change etc). They aren't leaving immediately, but it piles more on the "camel's back" for when the big "straw" comes down the line or they simply can't take it anymore.

    Sites like this help solidify the "break" once it happens. Jwfacts was priceless for me. This site gave me a place to vent and realize how many people are in the same boat.

  • minimus

    I think people leave the Witnesses for a variety of reasons.

    Some leave because they feel unfairly treated. Others leave because of doctrine. Others leave because they really never believed in it anyway.

    I do believe people can leave due to a cumulative effect. Maybe they saw an "apostate" and it invoked curiousity. It may have not done anything definitive at that moment, but it could take its toll down the road.

  • steve2

    I left the organization in spite ofwhat fundamentalist "Christians" were shouting out loud about the Watchtower.

  • Watchtower-Free

    Like many I woke up and did research because of multiple
    instances of spiritual abuse by elders and the policies and
    procedures of the Watchtower over a lifetime .

    What I found was many great people speaking out .
    They were activists.

    I very much appreciate the video makers , bloggers, website
    owners .

    Activism aimed at the public can inoculate the public from ever
    taking this cult seriously in any way .

  • cofty

    I broadly agree. Campaigns to dramatically bring down the Watchtower are unrealistic.

    There has to be a moment that when the person to give themself permission to listen to their doubts.

    Having resources for people to research at that point is very valuable.

    Having said that, I got out using only the NWT and WT library and avoided the ex-JW community for a lot of years.

    Activism aimed at the public can inoculate the public from ever taking this cult seriously in any way - WTFree

    This is an important point.

  • Rufus T. Firefly
    Rufus T. Firefly

    I believe you are 100% correct, Simon. "I've learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves." (The last line spoken by Anthony Perkins in the classic film "Pretty Poison.")

  • problemaddict


    While I do not have a problem with the premise of the thread, I did want to mention that I myself am probably an outlier. I generally had a good experience as a JW. My friends and family have all been lovely people. i was right in the middle of the org, praised for my parts, feeling good about myself etc. It was that mix of hubris and zeal that led me to sites. I then bacame an apologist of sorts. I then woke up.

    THEN I ended us getting treated badly because I starting bucking the machine a bit. In general, my relationships are still good. I have friends that know my stands and refuse to shun me or treak me differently. I have the same obsticles with family and long timers everyone has had to varying degrees.

    So while the sign in front of the Assemblies didn't wake me up, the presence of dissenting information sure did help. Like most things, more good would be done by confronting the stereotype of apostates. A born again christian yelling outside of an assembly does ZERO GOOD, except to make that person feel better about himself. There are very specific and friendly messages that could get out there. i think peoples personal sad stories on you tube (when accurate and not self serving), can reach someone.

    Lets face it. There are a alarge section of JW's that...

    1) Don't understand any of the new light, or the concept of new light.

    2) Don't agree with or understand the blood doctrine......or worse think medicine has gone so far so that it is no longer an issue.

    3) Don't agree with shunning policies. My died in the wool JW family member who served at bethel thinks this. I mean....my head almost exploded.

    4) Don't know the history, or CURRENT policies that control activities.

    Mainly they feel good about their hall, serving God, and doing so differently than others. Nothing wrong with that per se. So how do you reach that person? I think the message is important. We are all here because of the work of someone else at some point.

  • juanvazquez88

    Read "Introduction to Christianity" of Joseph Ratzinger, and you will see that reason and faith work together..

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