Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends

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  144001

  Malvinas,

  It's your comment I took issue with, not theirs. You are no expert on Arizona law, but that didn't prevent you from making accusations of criminal misconduct against Cedars. Criticism is one thing, and I certainly agree that Cedars was deserving of criticism for his role in the debacle, but stooping to the level of making accusations of criminal conduct that could potentially have led to the commencement of a criminal investigation targetting Cedars, was far over the top. It wasn't enough for you to just criticize Cedars, you went the extra mile to try to get hm into legal trouble. In doing so, you helped only the WTBTS, and no one else.
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  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  I beg to differ. I played a part in helping AAWA clear up what could have been a huge problem for them later on down the line. A fact which they corrected later publicly. You don't think the WT lawyers would have went after 'John Cedars' and quickly realised that this was not a real person? Let's be glad that problem was solved before some real damage could have occurred. I never claimed to be an expert in Arizona law (I guess by that you mean an attorney licensed in the state of Arizona), but what I was pointing out was an email from the ACC which stated that it was a Class 6 felony to do so. The ACC doesn't give out legal advice, but they do know a thing or two about Arizona corporate law since they are the governmental entity relating to it. This point is moot since we have an admission by AAWA that they did need to have real people on the documents.
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  144001

  The point is not the propriety of what AAWA/Cedars did. The point is the manner in which you responded to it, which was to try and throw Cedars to the criminal authorities. You can try to rewrite history and otherwise rationalize your conduct on this forum, but you have no ability to edit those posts, and they remain here for all to see.
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  Simon

  I think this is where AAWA / Cedars see malicious intent when really they are being helped by people pointing out those issues. Better to get them cleared up and sortedd out early on. If we can find such issues then an organization such as the WTS and their legal team certainly could if they ever went to bat against them.

  But who's really to blame? The messenger who points out the issue or the people who knowingly signed false statements on official documents?

  It doesn't take a law expert to know when something is legal when it comes to signing government docs - they usually spell it out by saying "it is an offense to ..."

  But let's not do the whole AAWA debacle again. They eventually recognised their errors in all the many things that were pointed out. Who cares if they refuse to thank the people who helped set them straight (although it would be nice if they stopped throwing mud).
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  144001

  Simon, good points, except that concerns that criminal laws were violated could have been communicated privately, via PM, instead of posting them publicly for everyone, including the supporters of the WTBTS, to see.
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  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  To try and throw cedars to the 'criminal authorities' would have required much more than a few anonymous postings on an ex-JW discussion forum. All I did was post about it. However, the ACC did in fact invite the other poster to file a complaint. I did not file a complaint. AAWA eventually followed the advice offered, so I view that as a validation of what was said, and not a condemnation of it. Things were getting a bit tense in forum as they always do, but no one called the cops on this one. Try again.
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  Simon

  to try and throw Cedars to the criminal authorities

  I really doubt the US government was going to start extradition proceedings with Croatia or put on any special rendition flight. The important thing was that blatant legal irregularities were resolved which Cedars should be thanking Las Malvinas for (but I wouldn't hold your breath mate).
• 

  Simon

  Simon, good points, except that concerns that criminal laws were violated could have been communicated privately, via PM, instead of posting them publicly for everyone, including the supporters of the WTBTS, to see.

  I think the fact that they were not was due to previous experiences people had and where things had got to with AAWA communication who were in complete lockdown and blame-game mode at that point.

  As pointed out, the fact that they changed their corporate structure is evidence that it was wrong. Same with the name. Valuable feedback for which people were insulted for in return.
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  144001

  " but no one called the cops on this one. Try again."

  You may as well have called the cops. It's not a stretch of the imagination to conclude that the WTBTS monitors this site, to some extent. Reckless public postings of allegations of criminal misconduct could come to the attention of the WTBTS legal team, which could lead to phone calls to the powerful law firms that represent them, and phone calls from there to connections in the judicial system.

  In any event, there was no good reason to make public posts that had even a miniscule potential to bring legal harm to Cedars. If you were really trying to help AAWA, you could have communicated your concerns via PM.
• 

  Simon

  BTW: 144001 - I don't know if you're aware but I know from my own experience that when I tried to raise things directly and privately, I simply got a barrage of insults in return. I don't blame anyone for making issues public as it seemed the only way to make them listen was to shame them into it.

  But anyway, enough - sick of topics being taken off track by AAWA fucktardedness.