Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends

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  Narcissistic Supply

  Violia,

  RE: Someone once told me the answer to most "but why" questions was "money". Follow the money.

  Yes Yes And Yes.
• 

  LucidChimp

  Without sites like this I would still be "in" mentally.

  Apostates "saved" me from the WT. Even with my doubts I would have found my way back if I had not stumbled upon TTATT.

  I have one family member totally out mentally and fading - and two family members up in the air... Though they have listened, which is huge. Also one friend who's agreed to a chat this week and a friend of a "worldly" friend who is studying that has agreed to a chat (after a phone conversation).

  Me +1 and anyone else on that list who leaves, does so due to exposure to information from here and jwfacts.com.

  Do not doubt your impact, I owe you internet apostates my freedom and hopefully that of some of my family.

  (That said, I agree with much of what you wrote)
• 

  ablebodiedman

  In order for them to; "take no note until the floods came" someone HAS to first make an attempt to communicate with them.

  What Jesus Christ said would happen IS HAPPENING.

  and

  I want to do my part!

  abe
• 

  rebel8

  I would say that what gets you in in the first place (or convinces you to stay in if you are born-in) is also what will get you out.

  Wow, that is so true.
• 

  Simon

  The consensus seems to be that doubt starts first and then people search and find information rather than the information creating the initial doubt.

  So the warnings about apostate literature from the WTS is more to create a bogeyman and keep the mental shutters up to prevent initial doubt. The reality is that if they are reading, then they are already free and it's already game over.
• 

  OUTLAW

  So the warnings about apostate literature from the WTS is more to create a bogeyman and keep the mental shutters up

  to prevent initial doubt. The reality is that if they are reading, then they are already free and it's already game over.....Simon

  ....................................................................................

  ......................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  smiddy

  When I was a relatively new jw , in the early 60`s I read the book " I Was A Watchtower Slave For 30 Years " and all I thought at the time was he was a disgruntled ex jw who felt he had an axe to grind.

  It wasnt untill about 33 years later that I left.

  Its true that the individual has to be in the right frame of mind because of his own experiences/circumstances that he/she may then start to question what they really beleive.

  And I do beleive,while their may be doubts along the way it usually is some big shock that jolts us up to reality .

  I must see if I can get hold of this book and see what I think of it now.

  smiddy
• 

  frankiespeakin

  I'm not sure of the exact processes but I do think the pithy one liners that are catchy stays in the mind doing its stuff, because I can only remember little glimpses of thoughts that were turning points in my thinking that seemed to reverberate for years till it finally made me a full blown apostate.

  To expect something we say or write to lead to instant enlightenment that leads one out of the Governing Body's clutches is unrealistic or wishful thinking. Sites like JWN, JWfacts, blogs, and the like have their steady corrosive effects on the indoctrination of the JW who reads them. Their sucesss cannot really be measured that is what my intuition tells me based on my own experience.

  I remember when the internet first was availible in the mid ninties, I got on the internet and the one of the first things I typed in a search engine was "Jehovah wittnesses" and O my was it all bad about the Organization so I only read very little something about the hypocrisy of the Organization in Germany durring Hitler's rule, which I spent about 5 minutes reading. 5 years later or so I was a goner and joined the growing community of apostates(affectionately).
• 

  konceptual99

  I fully agree that individuals will not move away from the WTS unless they are mentally ready.

  I also agree that it is very unlikely that the WTS is going to be brought down by the mere presence of anti-JW sites, groups and individuals.

  That is absolutely NO argument for not putting things out there.

  For individuals who are waking up, being able to see sites like jwfacts, jwsurvey, individual experiences on youtube, ray's videos and all the other resources out there is absolute gold. A person may have a particular bug bear that they research but then they find so, so, so much more. All that information can help absolutely smash the cognitive dissonance.

  JWN was pivotal in my awakening but it's not the only place to be. It's a great place for discussion and support but if I had to give out one URL, just one, then it would be jwfacts.

  I would ask how many have benefited from activism like Carl Jonsson's? If he had not stuck to his guns then much of the excellent work on the 607 doctrine would not be there.

  How many have been helped through silentlambs? It's not been a big aspect of my awakening but for those who have suffered abuse then it must be life changing.

  I know AAWA has a bad rap here amongst some but the guys involved are doing their bit.

  Somethings out there may smack of bitterness. Some things may employ questionable reasoning, illogical arguments or even false statements. This does not prevent the objective from being reached. If anything it suggests there should be more reasonable, objective and logical material out there. TBH as well, not everything posted on JWN is reasonable, objective and logical. It does not stop it being a top 5 site.

  Ultimately people will make their own mind up. The more information out there can only help. We have all been affected by being part of a high control organisation that determines what we should think and uses peer pressure to ensure adherence. I would have thought that we all would be happy that we have freed or are on our way to freeing ourselves from this and the opportunity to choose what to think and what to say should be encouraged.
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  Black Sheep

  'In their face' apostacy doesn't work well. The WT has provided them with coping strategies for it, so you need get cunning if you want to slip one past the goalie.

  It's better to have them wanting to answer a question they don't have an answer for, than dusting off their feet and looking for an 'honest hearted' person.

  A lot here have talked about having their doubts while in. Calmly raising a doubt to deal with has to be more effective than chasing them off chanting "Get behind me Satan!", even if it is just a doubt they have already been trying to bury. If they do have an existing doubt, why bring up a new one or try to send them off to jwfacts or sickscreams? They'll google them up when they are good and ready. Our job is just to get them ready and let them know that we are there to support them when they realise that the wheels have fallen off jehovah's chariot.