How men become homosexuals...

by Calebs Airplane 69 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Zoos

    From now on I'm eating my hotdogs sideways.

  • GromitSK

    I wonder if one or two are confusing being gay with 'sex with a person of the same gender'. In the case of institutional sex mentioned above the prevailing sexuality would be heterosexual however there being no females, the alternatives were masturbation, abstinence or sex with a man. I would think very few men having sex in such circumstances would prefer men if women were in the picture.

    Men have sex with men for a number of reasons, some of them have nothing to do with sexuality per se eg power etc. I could certainly have sex with a woman but have no interest at all in it, if I did would that make me bisexual or heterosexual? I don't think so.

    Also I have to say some of the statements on gay relationships seem wildly ignorant.

  • titch

    Interesting that that same book never touched on the subject of why Lesbians become Lesbians.


  • fulltimestudent

    I guess that Legacy is attempting to find reasons for homosexual behaviour. Unfortunately, she's come across a proposed reason, that while it suits Christians as an explanation, is supported by groups like NARTH who have a postion on the topic, similar to that offered by Legacy.

    Here's a Wikipedia entry on Narth.

    NARTH was founded in 1992 by Benjamin Kaufman, Charles Socarides, and Joseph Nicolosi. In an article titled In Defense of the Need for Honest Dialogue, Kaufman wrote that the three of them founded NARTH because the American Psychiatric Association and similar professional organizations "had totally stifled the scientific inquiry that would be necessary to stimulate a discussion [about homosexuality]." [6] NARTH's leaders argue that the political atmosphere had changed, making it politically incorrect even to suggest the need for a dialogue that considers the question of the normality of homosexuality. Kaufman states that NARTH was formed in response to censorship of scientific investigation of politically unpopular views. [7] [8]

    The organization had 501(c)(3) tax exempt status, which was revoked by the Internal Revenue Service in September 2012 due to ongoing failure to file required paperwork. [9]

    It can be noted that NARTH is supported by Christian groups, who think that the BIBLE should guide all men, all the time, whether or not they believe in a fairy in heaven or not, for example the Mormons are strong financial supporters of Narth.

    Other Christian groups support Narth, because Narth practioners claim that they can "change" homosexual behaviour. It is unclear how they define "change." The JW publications claim that the 'truth' (or, Jeeeezuz, or the holy energy or something) will change homosexuals, and always have some experience to 'prove' that it works. But does it ? My GAYXJW friend, thought that he had changed. From when he learned the truth, over say a five/six year period, he thought he had studied, had field-serviced-had prayed his gay away. But it didn't mean that he was then a full hetero! After marriage, the full sadness of lack of sexual attraction within the marriage bed, made life hell for him and his former wife. He realises now he had merely sublimated his sexual attraction to men.

    I asked him to come and comment on this site - but his response was not fit to print - grin!


    On the other hand, opposed to the Narth position, are professional groups like the APA, American Psychiatric Association:

    The American Psychiatric Association, founded in 1844, is the world’s largest psychiatric organization. It is a medical specialty society representing more than 33,000 psychiatric physicians from the United States and around the world.

    Who comment have this comment concerning homosexuality on their website: ( )

    LGBT-Sexual Orientation


    What is Sexual Orientation?

    “Sexual orientation” is a term frequently used to describe a person’s romantic, emotional or sexual attraction to another person. A person attracted to another person of the same sex is said to have a homosexual orientation and may be called gay (both men and women) or lesbian. Individuals attracted to persons of the other sex are said to have a heterosexual orientation. Sexual orientation falls along a continuum and individuals who are attracted to both men and women are said to be bisexual. Sexual orientation is different from gender identity, which refers to the internal sense of whether one is male or female. Sexual orientation is a relatively new concept. In fact, although same sex behavior has always existed, the idea of a homosexual identity or a homosexual person is only about 100 years old.

    The concept of sexual orientation refers to more than sexual behavior. It includes feelings as well as identity. Some individuals may identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual without engaging in any sexual activity. Some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime. Individuals maybe become aware at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

    Is Homosexuality A Mental Disorder?
    No. All major professional mental health organizations have gone on record to affirm that homosexuality is not a mental disorder. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association’s Board of Trustees removed homosexuality from its official diagnostic manual, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Second Edition (DSM II). The action was taken following a review of the scientific literature and consultation with experts in the field. The experts found that homosexuality does not meet the criteria to be considered a mental illness.

    What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
    No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.

    What is “Coming Out”?
    “Coming out” is the term used to describe the experience in which a person identifies himself or herself as gay, lesbian or bisexual. Coming out is not a one-time event, but a lifelong process of identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual to family friends and other significant members of one’s social world. Each person’s experience in coming out is unique and the process always stimulates anxiety as well as provides challenging possibilities for personal empowerment and emotional growth. There are many resources available to people coming out. See below for some of these resources.

    Does Stigma Still Exist About Homosexuality?
    Yes. Fears and misunderstandings about homosexuality are wide spread. They present daunting challenges to the development and maintenance of a positive self-image in gay, lesbian and bisexual persons and often to their families as well. “Homophobia” is a term that refers to the irrational fear and prejudice against homosexual persons. Public opinion polls in the United States show that in the past twenty years, feelings toward gay men, lesbians and bisexuals have moved in a significantly positive direction. Nevertheless, when compared to other social groups homosexuals are still among the most stigmatized groups in the nation. Hate crimes are prevalent. Gay men and lesbians are still banned from serving openly in the US military service. Child custody decisions still frequently view gay and lesbian people as unfit parents. Gay and lesbian adolescents are often taunted and humiliated in their school settings. Many professional persons and employees in all occupations are still fearful of identifying as gay or lesbians in their work settings. Gay relationships are not widely recognized in any legal way.

    What Position Has the American Psychiatric Association Taken Regarding This Stigma?
    In 1992, the American Psychiatric Association, recognizing the power of the stigma against homosexuality, issued the following statement:

    “Whereas homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgement, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities, the American Psychiatric Association calls on all international health organizations and individual psychiatrists in other countries, to urge the repeal in their own country of legislation that penalized homosexual acts by consenting adults in private. And further the APA calls on these organizations and individuals to do all that is possible to decrease the stigma related to homosexuality wherever and whenever it may occur.”

    Such organizational recognition of homophobia has been important in changing attitudes about homosexuality.

    Is It Possible To Change One’s Sexual Orientation (“Reparative Therapy”)?
    There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of “reparative therapy” as a treatment to change one’s sexual orientation, nor is it included in the APA’s Task Force Report, Treatments of Psychiatric Disorders. More importantly, altering sexual orientation is not an appropriate goal of psychiatric treatment. Some may seek conversion to heterosexuality because of the difficulties that they encounter as a member of a stigmatized group. Clinical experience indicates that those who have integrated their sexual orientation into a positive sense of self-function at a healthier psychological level than those who have not. “Gay affirmative psychotherapy” may be helpful in the coming out process, fostering a positive psychological development and overcoming the effects of stigmatization. A position statement adopted by the Board in December 1998 said:

    "The American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as “reparative” or “conversion” therapy, which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder, or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/ her homosexual orientation.”

    What Do the Parents of Gay Men/Lesbian/Bisexuals experience?
    When a person “comes out “ to their parents, it can be a very emotionally trying experience for all involved. Most parents are concerned for the welfare of their children, recognizing the difficulties posed by being a member of a stigmatized group. Often parents also fear rejection by their own family, friends, religious, or social groups. Fortunately, support exists for parents who are struggling to come to terms with their child’s homosexuality. PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) is an organization comprised of the families of gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals that provides information and assistance to parents and families. Family or individual psychotherapy can be very helpful in dealing with questions and concerns about a gay child.

    How Do the Children of Gay/Lesbians Parents Fare?
    Many gay men and women are parents and some conceived their children in prior heterosexual marriages. Recently an increasing number of gay parents have conceived children and raised them from birth either as single parents or in committed relationships. Often this is done through alternative insemination, adoption or through foster parenting. Numerous studies have shown that the children of gay parents are as likely to be healthy and well adjusted as children raised in heterosexual households. Children raised in gay or lesbian households do not show any greater incidence of homosexuality or gender identity issues than other children. Children raised in nontraditional homes with gay/lesbian parents can encounter some special challenges related to the ongoing stigma against homosexuality, but most children surmount these problems.

    THe American Psychologist Association has a similar position - but I'll post that separately.

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    I thought it was caused by watching a box set of Will & Grace, Judy Garland recordings and an addiction to Project Runway. My bad.




  • Etude

    When I was a kid, I thought that all homosexuals were, pardon the term, "fruits" because they were effeminate. Then the issue became complicated when I learned of men like Rock Hudson and others, including some pro football players that were gay. It busted my perception. To top that off, I realized that traits (body hair, deep voice, premature baldness because of high Testosterone) had nothing to do with orientation. In my mid 20s, I had 3 JW roommates out of which one had a great deep voice and was hairy. He nevertheless had effeminate mannerisms. Still, he pictured himself as "manly" because of those attributes. I couldn't understand his self image, especially after he confessed to me that he had gay tendencies. I read an interview with Neil Sedaka and learned he is not gay, despite being effeminate. He explains his mannerisms as a result of being raised with sisters. He’s been faithfully married to the same woman for a long time.

    While in Bethel, I knew two roommates, both of whom did weight lifting. They bulked up. The blonde one had some mannerisms and the other one was straight as an arrow. It took a bit for me to realize that the blond one had, dare I say, fallen in love with the other. The other was in the difficult position that, while he was trying to be "Christian" and not reject his roommate and friend, he was not about to do something he couldn't do. Years later, when I connected with the first guy who had since also left the JWs, he declared to me that he "had come out". I think my unperturbed response of "Yeah, OK" disappointed him. I think he was expecting shock or something in that order from me. Somehow I knew. Still it's impossible me to tell for a lot of people. And so, I readily accept it when someone says that they've known since they were 2 years old that they were "different" or that they've had a penchant for the same sex as long as they can remember.

    This has been going on since Ham fiddled with Noah’s patriarchal “staff”. So, when the Bible says: “And Noah awoke from his wine, knew what his younger son had done unto him”, it doesn’t take a genius to understand that homosexuality has been a part of life for a long time, notwithstanding that Ham took advantage of Noah. I hope the world finally comes to a point where they can live and let others live no matter who they chose to love.

  • GromitSK

    no wasanelder. You're confusing cause with symptoms. :)

  • ShirleyW

    "I read an interview with Neil Sedaka and learned he is not gay, despite being effeminate. He explains his mannerisms as a result of being raised with sisters. He’s been faithfully married to the same woman for a long time."

    I'll preface this by saying it doesn't matter, nor does Neil Sedaka really owe an explanation about his sexuality to anyone, but his explanation kinda sounds like what one would expect to hear from someone who gives off the idea that they're effeminate. Reminds me of the articles I've read with Queen Latifah who says she'd like to have kids and the white picket fence home and life, but when directly asked, she's never said yes or no. Kind of like Ellen and Ricky Martin, everyone knew but then they come out with the headline on a news magazine that they are gay, like everyone would be so shocked.

  • rebel8

    The only reason jws have such an aversion to homosexuality is because they learn about it while exposed to the stench of the cheap cleaning chemicals in the hall. And here's proof!

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