laika: being born from water is not water baptism. when jesus had this conversation at john 3 he asked nicademus are you a teacher of isreal and yet dont know these things? at ez36:25-27 Jehovah talks about water and spirit and god giving a new heart, a heart that is flesh and can respond ,unlike the heart of stone. the water here is a sysmbol of cleaning a person. but notice its a sprinkle. and water baptism should always be a full going under or to dip. the water here is not physical but spirtuall. physical water could never wash away sins.
jw and jw defenders, have you been born again?
Ravens: Baptism literally means to wash with water, but it's not the water alone that does these things, it's the spirit working through the water. See also 1 Peter 3:21
Anyway, I don't want to drag your thread too far off topic, so if you prefer we can discuss the doctrine of baptismal regeneration another time. :)
SFPW , I am with unstop on this . Using the analogy of the football game you need a ticket to get in . Standing outside the stadium doesn't count . I too would like to know where in the Bible does it talk about someone benefitting from the Kingdom ? There is no hint in the Bible that there are two hopes for man , an earthly one and a heavenly one . The same message is given to all concerning salvation . Please read Ephesians 2 the whole chapter .I make mention here of verse 6
" And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus . "
Also Ephesians 4: 4-6
" There is one body and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope when you were called - one Lord , one faith , one baptism : one God and Father of all , who is over all and through all and in all "
I have never read about anyone benefitting from the kingdom , you are in or out .
amen! and look at these verses pslams 37:29 where are the faithful? on earth forever. matthew 13:43 where are the faithful? in the kingdom. remember what jesus said, if your right eye makes you stumble tear it out, fo it is better to "enter the kingdom" with one eye than for your whole body to be pitched into hell. whatever anyone thoughts are on hell, its not a place of benefits.n its clear your in the kingdom and have life or your outside and have no salvation. also look at luke 13:28;29. if only 144ooo enter the kingdom and thats from jesus to our day. why are all the old test faithfulls there according to the above verse? i wish stand for true worship would live up to his name and really stand up for pure worship.
so in the end born agains are just a bunch of opportunists.
how do you call someone who's threatening to torture and/or kill more than 99% of human population (even most christians)? and how do you call someone who defends that person and holds up his morals?
born agains as well as JWs and other cults always pretend they are trying to save people from some natural disaster. i'm saved, i'm saved. from what, from who? from the wrath of your adolf hitler times 10000 in the sky.
It might help to check out some eastern orthodox or even anabaptist views on the atonement. Evangelicalism is not the be all and end all of post-JW christianity.
j h: romans 5:9 yes saved from gods wrath, however you twist on born agains is off, you cant say 99% where did that number come from? cofty: nevermind lol and as far as anabaptist i think alot throughout history were christain, the amish have delvolped into a cult like group who do not bear fruit as a group. they do not spread the gospel and they have much in common with jw. seems the minnites have a more balanced view than the amish and as far as i know theu hold to the gospel.
Unstop is right that water baptism does not being born again.
This is what I have learned from Christ... though He also explains what being born again means in what is written:
To be born again, one is born of the Spirit.
One recieves the water of life ...which is holy spirit poured out from the Father... through the Son.
So holy spirit (the water of life)... is given BY the Spirit (who is Christ)... so that we too may be born OF the Spirit, and so be sons of our Father in heaven. (as Unstop also mentioned earlier, I believe)
This is being annointed; this is the baptism of fire that the apostles underwent at Pentecost... when Christ breathed upon them, giving them holy spirit.
Born again = born of the Spirit.
(of course we must still be changed to be like Him when He returns to gather those who belong to Him... and establishes His Kingdom; giving us the new 'white robe'; the spirit body; made clean in the blood of the lamb; with no sin or death in it. Which is why Paul spoke of the holy spirit in us as being a token/a guarantee of the promise made and what is to come)
If anyone wants to know the truth, then one should ask the Truth (Christ) to grant eyes to see and ears to hear, as He is the One who knows. Follow Him.
Peace to you,