Why not what?
The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.
by Stand for Pure Worship 187 Replies latest jw friends
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jgnat
Well, I'll make sure to wait a full fourteen hours before opening one of your threads, since you are so busy. I prefer dialogue. I do think we must discuss other religions and cults, because that is a fair comparison (apples to apples) than comparing to an exit group (which is not trying to add membership, but is meant to be a stop along the way).
"For one thing, and it goes without saying, most of those other religions mentioned have had centuries to flourish as weeds left unchecked." - SFP(something)
The WTS has passed it's first century. So I think we can count it as one of the big boys now.
"Their teachings and lack of harmony with God's word and unity and love within themselves make that abundently clear." - SFP(something)
Not clear at all. I would say there are other sects that are far more exacting in following the bible precepts than the Witnesses. I would count the Seventh Day Adventists in that company. That is, if bible accuracy were the ultimate test. I would challenge that it is not.
I would also challenge that love within the membership is inadequate as well. A loving, Christ based church must show love to all humanity, not just within their own membership. On this, the WTS is a collossal fail. If a mother is forbidden to call her son, this is not a loving organization.
"On the other hand, the other religions that haven't been around that long, in some cases only a little bit longer than Jehovah's Witnesses, when looking at their belief system it goes without saying that they're a cult that follow the directives of other imperfect men." - SFP(something)
I think you do have to explain yourself. This is not apparent at all. Have you checked out Charter for Compassion?
You follow every word of a committee of eight imperfect men who take their guidance from the same source you do, and pride themselves in their extensive checks and balances to keep themselves "pure". Except when they make mistakes. Which they do. Being imperfect.
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Finkelstein
We're talking the Mormons, and Scientology at that point. That said, I don't believe it's fair or even logical to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with groups like Scientology.
Why not the WTS. lures people into its organization by lying and deceiving tactics then exploits them for money and labor, I would say thats a perfect fit in my opinion.
The reason the WTS. is an utter failure as religious organization is because its being selling itself to the public extraneously for more than a century but only has 8 million
followers world wide. Not a success by any stretch of the imagination.
One could even call it a commercial failure.
The corruption is there to see and witness, it just takes some intellectual honesty mixed with a bit of knowledge.
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redvip2000
@SFPW
It's obvious that your post is nothing much than an attempt to get a rise out of everybody here.
Not even you would be that idiotic, to make a comparison between a corporation which gets millions of donation money funnelled to it's pockets, and group of individuals who simply lead individual, free and productive lives.
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minimus
SUCCESS???? What success?
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Stand for Pure Worship
The WTS has passed it's first century. So I think we can count it as one of the big boys now.
To be fair, the Watchtower has not passed it's first century. Now an argument can be made that it went through a John the Baptizer phase during Russell's time, but it wasn't until the 30's that Jehovah's Witnesses really came into their own. Anything prior was building the foundation of what was to come.
I would also challenge that love within the membership is inadequate as well. A loving, Christ based church must show love to all humanity, not just within their own membership. On this, the WTS is a collossal fail. If a mother is forbidden to call her son, this is not a loving organization.
Matt 10:34-37
I think you do have to explain yourself. This is not apparent at all. Have you checked out Charter for Compassion?
Never heard of it, but I'll check it out. I'll check it out.
You follow every word of a committee of eight imperfect men who take their guidance from the same source you do, and pride themselves in their extensive checks and balances to keep themselves "pure". Except when they make mistakes. Which they do. Being imperfect
That's not true. They give us counsel and Scriptural based suggestions. They're not in any position of authority, but when we submit to their direction it benefits us. At the end of the day we all have to answer for our own decisions.
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Suraj Khan
Why not this:
I don't believe it's fair or even logical to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with groups like Scientology.
It is an entirely valid comparison. You assert that Scientology is a religion which "follow[s] the directives of other imperfect men". Are you implying that the Governing Body is comprised of perfect humans, or are you implying that they do not in fact lead the worldwide community of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Indeed, the WTBTS has invited comparison with other religions since its inception. Even the Roman Catholic Church was often vilified as the Whore of Babylon and a bastion of false teaching. Nevertheless, the JW Organization actively resists its own members doing due diligence research on their own faith from outside sources, and the punishment for such (if discovered) is disfellowshiping.
This is one reason among many that the JW Organization has been labeled a cult - active resistance to outside information, punishment and shunning is a trait the JW Organization shares absolutely with Scientology.
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Separation of Powers
Every one of those items that you list SFPW is what some believe to be evidence of a well run publishing empire with a non paid work force that is trained to overcome objections and capitalize on the suffering of others so that they will conform when at their lowest human condition.
Ask yourself, "What evidence is there that they truly follow the 1st century christian model?"
I like the comment made in the movie Angels and Demons, "My church FEEDS the hungry, COMFORTS the SICK and DYING. What does YOUR Church do?"
Well, WHAT DOES IT DO?
SOP
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redvip2000
They're not in any position of authority
Folks, it's times like these - when you hear a Jehovah Witness say that the governing body are not in a position of authority, that we can truly rejoice in the fact that we were able to escape from a group of people who have completely lost a connection with reality.
Freedom is so sweet!!
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Stand for Pure Worship
It is an entirely valid comparison. You assert that Scientology is a religion which "follow[s] the directives of other imperfect men". Are you implying that the Governing Body is comprised of perfect humans, or are you implying that they do not in fact lead the worldwide community of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Well the difference is, they follow the directive of only one man, Misciviage I belive his name? Something like that, but the buck starts and stops with him. Whereas within the WT, you have semi-autonomous congregations headed by "bodies" of elders as opposed to only one man(Congregation Servant). Where there's one man running the show, you'll see the groundwork for disaster. Whether that be on a nationalistic level, Iraq duing Sadaam anyone? Or on a religiouis level, Koresh for instance. Jehovah's Witnesses follow the direction of several Scriptually qualified individuals with experience in life and spiritual discernment. That way no one man is running the show which could potentially lead to a theocratic tyranny. We're probably the only religion with a system of balances and checks.
Indeed, the WTBTS has invited comparison with other religions since its inception. Even the Roman Catholic Church was often vilified as the Whore of Babylon and a bastion of false teaching. Nevertheless, the JW Organization actively resists its own members doing due diligence research on their own faith from outside sources, and the punishment for such (if discovered) is disfellowshiping.
You're being fantastic with the latter end of this post. Nobody can get DFd for studying or researching with outside sources. Now the holding to of ideas contrary to what's taught in the Christian Congregation, and/or spreading of such so as to cause division, will land you in the blue room, as it should.