Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon 263 Replies latest forum announcements

  • Simon
    Simon
    There may be many posts against but I am not sure that makes a majority of posters. The same argument is made over and over, wash, rinse, repeat.

    I agree. There is a small number of people who have repeatedly and vocally objected and the majority who don't appear to see it as any great issue. People tend to be more vocal when objecting to something so it's wrong to take that as the simple measure of support or objection for something.

    I'm still not convinced that the motives for the original objection were really genuine and not simply someone looking for *something* to try and distract attention from the 'activists' privacy debacle. What better way than pointing to what was perceived to be the source of criticism against them with a privacy claim in return? Some of the pointing to this seems more intended to try to embarrass me and "catch me in a lie" than be truly concerned with the issue in hand. Things that make you go "hmmn".

    I'm also suspicious of people who are so adamant that revealing their identity would be so catastrophic and yet they do nothing else to protect it and don't seem concerned by other potential risks that are mentioned - as though a country flag was really the pinnacle of the issue. If I can search for someone's alias and find their email address from it then how sincere am I supposed to believe they really are? Hey, it's ExJW's - someone will object and criticize even if you give away free money.

    Also, we still haven't had a good example of how someone's identity is supposed to be compromised if there was a little (and possibly incorrectly drawn) country flag next to someone's name or how lack of a flag prevents people plugging in one of the handful of countries that most people are from into things they have shared as being some critical missing piece that can't be guessed.

    Ultimately, I have to offset against all the noise and protest of these few the benefits and what I believe will be better protections for everyone against people pretending to be who they are not. This is my biggest concern and I think a more real issue than someone's identity somehow being revealed due to non personally identifiable information.

    While I could add opt-in or opt-out preferences these kind of things do tend to overcomplicate things more than the immediate feature itself and ends up having possibly 3 different types of accounts which complicates the code and generates support ("why do flags only appear next to some people but not others?" etc...). It also sets false expectations which removing the flags before has done.

    Thank you to everyone who has shared their opinions and contributed to a sensible discussion. To the few who have felt the need to be insulting, I think you have shown your true colors and should know that insulting people rarely convinces them to agree with your viewpoint.

  • incognito2014
    incognito2014

    The opening page on this site says.

    We are not affiliated with the WTB&TS in in any way and we take your privacy and security very seriously doing our utmost to protect your identity and provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends. Membership is completely free and anonymous so why not join today!


    If the way in which the site will display people's information (that they don't want displayed) is going to change I believe that the statement I copied above would no longer be valid.

    Sounds a bit bait and switch like to me.


  • Simon
    Simon
    Many here are frustrated as this guy doesn't appear to be really listening or taking into account any of the very reasoned and well thought out arguments against the flags. He just repeats that HE is not convinced.

    I have been clear about my reasoning and have asked for things to convince me. If convincing argument is not given then I remain unconvinced - that is not the same as "not listening".

    Can you, for instance, come up with a realistic example where someone has revealed enough information about themselves to identify who they are which cannot be done without the country?

    The bottom line for me is this. He never received my permission to display my country flag. So on principle, he shouldn't do it. Make the display a choice. Hello?

    There are reasons not to make it a choice. I am loathe to overcomplicate the software just to possibly pander to the paranoia or game playing of a handful of people or implement features that are unique to a particular community (whose concerns I believe are misplaced).

    The privacy policy of this site has always been to use best endeavours to protect any Personally Identifying Information (PII). The country you are posting from is not personally identifying - it is a trait typically shared by many millions of other people who would all get the same flag.

  • Simon
    Simon
    If the way in which the site will display people's information (that they don't want displayed) is going to change I believe that the statement I copied above would no longer be valid.
    Sounds a bit bait and switch like to me.

    Not at all.

    I have implemented features specifically to protect people by ensuring content on any page is always sourced from the site - avatars cannot be hosted on external URLs and any external images are proxied for example to prevent others from harvesting IP addresses and easily using posting times to associate an IP address to a poster. Many forums are vulnerable to this type of abuse - I took time and effort to make sure this one wasn't.

    There are other methods that I suspect all the people complaining would fall for so making an issue out of the flags seems to be more of a reliance on "security through obscurity" than real security.

    As I've said above, a flag is not "displaying people's information". It is a trait that someone has that is shared by millions of others and in no way identifies them. Even the IP address doesn't identify someone (although it would potentially be useful to do so).

    A country that and IP address originated from is nowhere near the same as the IP address itself.

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    I would REALLY like to see the flag so we know where the person is posting from. It could be a general safety feature for others posting here.

    For example, if I see someone with an ISIS (ISIL) flag next to them I would know not to disagree with anything the person said.

    Rub a Dub 

  • Isle of Lewis
    Isle of Lewis

    Seems an odd feature to become obsessed about.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Simon: I'm still not convinced that the motives for the original objection were really genuine and not simply someone looking for *something* to try and distract attention from the 'activists' privacy debacle. 

    I have had no share in the "privacy" debacle of AAWA and don't really care much about it. I really do believe my concern is genuine: Five years ago when I joined I told my girlfriend I would keep my country private, which I at the time and now feel is the right thing to do. Now this information is being revealed. You might feel this is irrational of her and I, but irrational or not, this feature will show information about me which I did not agree to have revealed. This is my sole motive for participating in this thread as I felt it was valid input on this feature.

    What input on the feature would you feel was valid?


  • Greener
    Greener

    "Can you, for instance, come up with a realistic example where someone has revealed enough information about themselves to identify who they are which cannot be done without the country?"

    If someone CHOOSES to reveal enough information, then that is THEIR CHOICE. That is the PRINCIPLE here. You have no right to display the flag and reveal anything that I haven't given you permission to display here. Period.

     "There are reasons not to make it a choice. I am loathe to overcomplicate the software just to possibly pander to the paranoia or game playing of a handful of people or implement features that are unique to a particular community (whose concerns I believe are misplaced)."

    These are your own judgements on the arguments against. You are wrong, so we disagree. I am not paranoid.

    So the choice can be written into the software, you are just choosing not to do it. Give it up then and let someone else do it then. Or.. just leave it as it is until you can have the choice written into the software. I don't see your argument for showing the flag as coherent, reasoned or fair and ethical. Where are your ethics? Where are your ethics? You are not showing any with your attitude about this. As was written before, this is a classic bait and switch. Dishonest lame nonsense.

     

     

  • bohm
    bohm

    Simon: It is a trait that someone has that is shared by millions of others and in no way identifies them

    This is not true in many instances. Firstly, there are countries which contain less than one million people. Secondly, and this is the really important bit, the set of relevant people are the set of people who are X-JWs (or apostate) IN THAT COUNTRY. For instance if a country contain 20´000 JWs, and an active JW post here, the set of people are those 20'000 JWs in the country, not the 8 million people living there. If in addition the person post as an active elder, with the country information, set is now the number of active elders (say about 500). This is orders of magnitude less than millions. 

    Now you could say: The person is stupid. He should not write that he is an active elder and ask for support if this worries him. But I still think he should be allowed to worry. 

  • wallowindawn
    wallowindawn

    What for of software I'd being used for this site that it takes excessive amounts of code to do the simplest of things? I have built forums from the ground up in the past and I can say that adding or removing that feature could be done with 1 simple if statement....


    If this is an out of the box forum which would be the best bet for someone not able to code then it would merely be a check box to click to enable some for of user specific option. 

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