Poster country flags and privacy (page 22)

Simon

"Can you, for instance, come up with a realistic example where someone has revealed enough information about themselves to identify who they are which cannot be done without the country?"
If someone CHOOSES to reveal enough information, then that is THEIR CHOICE. That is the PRINCIPLE here. You have no right to display the flag and reveal anything that I haven't given you permission to display here. Period.

So basically, no - you cannot come up with an example?

Seems an odd feature to become obsessed about.

But obsession is what exJW's do best !

If in addition the person post as an active elder, with the country information, set is now the number of active elders (say about 500). This is orders of magnitude less than millions.
Now you could say: The person is stupid. He should not write that he is an active elder and ask for support if this worries him. But I still think he should be allowed to worry.

Forgetting for a minute that your contrived example still doesn't actually identify anyone ... I think they would be best served by being informed about security.

But even so, it presumes that there is a department at bethel, scouring the internet looking for any clue that someone may be posting something and, crucially, they believe every single word that anonymous people post online. Do you think they are going to convene a meeting and interview each elder one by one to find out who the poster was?

Let's try this: "I'm an active elder in Bolivia".

OMG, did I just "out" someone" if there is an active elder in Bolivia?

No. Why? You know what will happen?

Nothing.

Nothing whatsoever.

Because no one has been identified and the bogeyman that you imagine isn't out there looking for you.

For example, if I see someone with an ISIS (ISIL) flag next to them I would know not to disagree with anything the person said.

LOL, some would have you believe the WTS is worse.

Simon

What for of software I'd being used for this site that it takes excessive amounts of code to do the simplest of things? I have built forums from the ground up in the past and I can say that adding or removing that feature could be done with 1 simple if statement....

Software is lots and lots of small simple things all put together. What could possibly go wrong?!

While it is "simple", the quick and simple things often contain more nuances and complexity than you realize and end up being the things that go wrong - because no one could ever have imagined there being a problem or things combine in unexpected ways.

It's more than one line - what if someone creates a theme and forgets the 'if' for instance? Should the option be opt-in or opt-out? Does it apply to new accounts and old in the same way?

Things are rarely as simple as they first appear - there's usually some UI involved and data updates beyond the cosmetic of something appearing or not on the page.

bohm

Simon, as I wrote I am only worried about ex-jws who, acting privately, try to conduct small witch-hunts on their own. I believe people have been identified on this forum because they posted to many details.

You are correct to say this information would not identify anyone completely. Neither would their street name. however you must agree that for people in small countries it give information about a person that can kindle a suspicion and make deniability a harder.

As I have written repeatedly, my concern is if someone (say my in-laws) were trying to figure out if I was on this board, the flag would tell them which (tens?) of posters on this board were potentially relevant in their search.

incognito2014

Simon

As I've said above, a flag is not "displaying people's information". It is a trait that someone has that is shared by millions of others and in no way identifies them.

As JWs form a small part of the population whilst it may be true that there will be millions of people who share a certain nationality it won't ever be true that millions of JWs share that trait of a single nationality. I just looked at the 2012 YB on jw.org and for example there are 7 witnesses in Norfolk Island.

It is good practice in surveys for example to anonymise (the spelling of that probably gave my own country away) the results by grouping where the numbers are very small in order to protect people.

The pain caused to many by being disfellowshipped is immense and in the rare circumstance that a person's nationality gives them away it may cause irreparable damage to their families and relationships.

bohm

bingo incognito.

bohm

Simon: It's more than one line - what if someone creates a theme and forgets the 'if' for instance?

Then properly someone would find out and the iff-statement could be added. Unless the feature was implemented such that the defaulted to e.g. a pirate flag, in which case I would suppose it would be the same in all themes.

Should the option be opt-in or opt-out?

I dont really care. Is this not simply a matter of "alter table users add column show_flag bool default='false'"?

Does it apply to new accounts and old in the same way?

Why not just the same?

Simon

You are correct to say this information would not identify anyone completely. Neither would their street name. however you must agree that for people in small countries it give information about a person that can kindle a suspicion and make deniability a harder.

I believe statements like this are intentionally trying to link it to being equivalent to something very specific and more identifying like someone's actual address. A country flag is a million miles away from identifying someone like their street address or their facebook name and list of friends would ever be.

Nothing on this site makes 'deniability' easier or harder. If someone has posted things that identify them or not then that is all that matters. If what is posted doesn't identify them and they can 'deny' things then how would adding the country make any difference?

I'm still waiting for a good example where the country would change the identifiability of a person other than some specific position where it wouldn't matter anyway. e.g. "I'm a branch overseer" would certainly identify you if the country was added ... but I think the secret is really already out in such a case and the poster would know it.

Simon

there are 7 witnesses in Norfolk Island

And if I was one of them and posting anything online I would know I needed to be way more protective of my identity than people in larger populations would.

BTW: Are you suggesting that they want to remain hidden so they can ... what? Fade without being noticed?

When you are one of only 7 I think everything you do is probably noticed.

Greener

You have no right to display anything about me, however you want to characterize this information and the minutia of it, without my consent. I have not given it to you. That is the issue, that you do not wish to address. Consent, and lack thereof here. You apparently will do whatever you want to do, regardless of the many legitimate concerns that have been raised by many. Oh you're just paranoid and I'd be pandering to you. No...its called doing the right thing.

Your so called arguments are meaningless to me. You drip with dishonesty. You have no morals or ethics then. Good for you, well done.

Simon

I don't really care. Is this not simply a matter of "alter table users add column show_flag bool default='false'"?

I think you've forgotten the point of why the feature is of benefit. It makes no sense if you allow everyone to disable it as the people you want to 'catch' by it would simply do this, thus negating it's worth. It would only make sense to be optional for pre-existing accounts + post combinations.

Poster country flags and privacy

Share this