After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy 268 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec
    tec

    I know that you gentlemen are having a thorough discussion. I just want to make one statement here though.

    Faith IS based on evidence.

    I mean, it is blind, in the sense that the object of one's faith is unseen (though some have seen, in visions and/or dreams).

    But it is not blind, as in without evidence.

    Faith is heard. Faith is within. Faith is how Peter recognized 'Jesus' (Jaheshua) as the Messiah. It was revealed to him by God and Peter had the faith to hear that. Same with John the Baptist. Same with Andrew (come, we have found the Messiah) Moses heard, and obeyed. Abraham heard, and believed, and obeyed. Noah heard and obeyed. Paul (formerly Saul, of Tarsus)... heard (he also saw)... and beleived, and followed. Same with all the prophets.

    That is faith.

    Now, one can learn about Christ and God, and have a reason to seek them out, based on other types of evidence... what is written, word of mouth, testimonies, the truth heard in the teachings of Christ, answered prayers, etc.

    My faith in God, the most Holy One of Israel, the Father of Christ... is based ON Christ. His teachings, those written and those He still teaches and speaks, as the Spirit. The truth, heard, in them and in Christ.

    Peace to you,

    tammy

  • adamah
    adamah

    TEC said-

    But it is not blind, as in without evidence.

    Faith is heard. Faith is within. Faith is how Peter recognized 'Jesus' (Jaheshua) as the Messiah. It was revealed to him by God and Peter had the faith to hear that. Same with John the Baptist. Same with Andrew (come, we have found the Messiah) Moses heard, and obeyed. Abraham heard, and believed, and obeyed. Noah heard and obeyed. Paul (formerly Saul, of Tarsus)... heard (he also saw)... and beleived, and followed. Same with all the prophets.

    That is faith.

    Well sure, but personal experiences are the weakest, most-flawed "evidence" that is known to man, since it's "internal validation", no more than a hunch or gut feeling driven by a hope or dream, what we'd WISH to be true. It's well-known FACT that the brain is capable of fooling itself, but worse, such perceptions are not compelling to anyone BUT the person who experiences them; we'd have to take THEIR word for it, and have faith in THEM. That's useless, since the claims cannot be scientifically tested and validated/falsified (well, actually they CAN, but the evidence doesn't point to Divine beings, but neurological mechanisms). Thus, such internal validation IS equivalent to 'blind faith' for anyone BUT the person who experiences the perception.

    In fact, the study of human psychology is an attempt to OVERCOME the limits of self-deception, attempting to counteract and address the effects of DELUSION (believing what isn't really real) by becoming aware of it.

    I know I've written before that those who claim to hear voices are NOT uncommon (typically associated with schizophrenia/bipolar disorder/abuse, although not always co-existent), but instead hearing voices is a well-recognized phenomena which has been confirmed clinically by MRI studies. Sure enough, voice hearers show brain activity in the areas that are known to be associated with auditory processing (eg Broca's area, etc) in individuals with 'normal' cochlear-nerve function, despite being in a completely-silent room. Their brains are basically remapping activity that's actually internally-generated and coming from within, and improperly attributing it to an outside source. Hence why it's called an auditory hallucnation: it's an oasis, and not really-real.

    Hearing voices is not a rare condition, and all those Biblical accounts thus become self-fulfilling prophecies for those who later suffered from the condition, where the content of THEIR messages is effected by the prior experiences. The Bible is thus in essence an ancient dairy of voice hearers, and it appeals with a strong resonance with those who also experience voices.

    We know from comparisons that the CONTENT of the messages is highly variable, where some are more fully-formed than others, eg some hear menacing voices saying fully-formed high-level concepts, some are more friendly and comforting (as a father figure, or messianic form), some are more OCD like and focused on fears, etc. Many claim to hear the voice of God and/or Jesus, but not surprisingly, they all claim to hear contradictory messages and claims from different deities, which is correlated with the religion beliefs in their country (Shintoists hear THEIR Gods, Jews claim to hear Jehovah, Zoroasterians hear Ahura Mazda, etc, and not surprising, since there's 33,000 flavors of Christianity alone, they all offer different conflicting messages of Jesus). That variability SHOULDN'T exist, unless the Gods just enjoy punking humans by giving inconsistent and contradictory messages to mankind.

    Here's an example of an auditory hallucination which is designed to demonstrate and recreate her experience, posted by someone with bipolar disorder:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8elN-JTr89o

    Adam

  • tec
    tec

    I think you might be missing the understanding that these people heard and obeyed the same Spirit, the same God... though today He speaks through His Son.

    Though I do understand that you and others are not going to believe that. And I do understand that someone who does not have faith (athiest) must have another explanation other than that Christ exists, is alive, and does speak. I get that from a non-believer. But not so much from someone who claims to have faith, to believe the accounts (whether in whole or part) as written. Except that few religions teach that the Spirit of Christ is alive and does speak... not truly. That is why they say, come to me (men, religion) over... go to Him.

    Personal experiences can indeed be flawed. But if what one hears also happens to be true, then there is a bit more validation to that, even if only for that person. Other people do not have to take their word for it, but they could experience the same... and if they did, would it matter that no one else believed them? Faith is not something that man can give another man.

    I know I've written before that those who claim to hear voices are NOT uncommon (typically associated with schizophrenia/bipolar disorder/abuse, although not always co-existent), but instead hearing voices is a well-recognized phenomena which has been confirmed clinically by MRI studies. Sure enough, voice hearers show brain activity in the areas that are known to be associated with auditory processing (eg Broca's area, etc) in individuals with 'normal' cochlear-nerve function, despite being in a completely-silent room. Their brains are basically remapping activity that's actually internally-generated and coming from within, and improperly attributing it to an outside source. Hence why it's called an auditory hallucnation: it's an oasis, and not really-real.

    You have written about that, and I have discussed the matter before as well... with other personas on this board that have said similar things as you (I say personas, because they were the same person, under different usernames/accounts).

    I do hear within. In the spirit. As do others I know who are listening, in spirit. I do not have any sort of psychological disorder. I do have to LISTEN, to hear... and there are many things that might cause me NOT to hear (listening to other voices - what other men, religion, etc, have to say, because their baggage and teachings can be very loud. Like how an abused woman might still only be able to hear what her abusive spouse had to say to her, rather than the truth that her loved ones are telling her; or listening sometimes to my own reasoning over what He has told me, so that I might brush Him off and not really hear Him - sort of the way a person can hear, but not really hear, what a parent is saying... in light of what your own reason is telling you)

    Nothing is forced upon me. Now recognizing Him (now understanding that HE does speak), I realize that I heard Him long before I recognized Him... as many people do.

    He can speak in clear words, dreams, understanding and revelation simply received (like inspiration -> inspired - > in spirit); in images; in reminders of scripture or something written from any source brought to mind; and also in recognition of hearing truth in something someone else shares in spirit.

    The Bible is thus in essence an ancient dairy of voice hearers, and it appeals with a strong resonance with those who also experience voices.

    That is an interesting statement, and a bit misleading, though I am not saying intentionally so. Most who believe in the bible would be faster to denounce someone who claimed to hear the voice of Christ, than even an atheist would. Most believe that sort of thing happened to certain special people... and does not happen today, and certainly NOT to some nobody. What makes YOU so special, is the response... or perhaps 'you're listening to a demon or bad spirit'; so that hearing a voice, even the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ... is not seen as something good, but something to be avoided at all costs.

    I, personally, did not even notice all the examples of those who HEARD... you know how you can read something and not pay attention to what is actually being said? I mean, its in there... but it only applied to those people, and certainly would not apply to people today, right? That was my thinking... until someone pointed out our Lord's own words on the matter, and that Christ IS alive, and does speak.

    I don't think there are as many people claiming to hear their God as you have stated. They might claim that they were spoken to in some way (a sign, or a feeling, or something, or through their church, or through an experience), but not too many claim to hear direct. The thing I think that scares most people are all the claims that some make that God told them to kill their children, or their spouse, or their parents, etc. I have no reason to doubt that those people heard a voice (or voices) telling them to do that (other than perhaps a few frauds trying to get out of trouble), but a claim does not make it so. That is why we must TEST the spirits. Test the message. Test against Christ and against love, and even if your only source is love and what Christ is WRITTEN to have said, then do that test.

    Again, that is mostly for those who believe... for an atheist, there must be another explanation.

    Though it is interesting that some of the preconcieved biases and prejudices against those who hear voice(s) are being shattered. Good. Regardless of the source of that voice or not.

    Peace to you!

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    The voice in that video is VERY intrusive. I am not speaking about that. Christ is quiet. One HAS to listen.

    Wait... those are ALL voices she hears? I thought it was just the whispering one. I also thought someone was with her in the kitchen. So yeah, I am not speaking about anything like that. Not at all. That is not my experience.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • AMO
    AMO

    If god was here for you all today he would of been there for the people 2000 years ago, yes.

    If god is not here for you today then one begge's the question was he realy there 2000 years ago, yes.

    AMO

  • GromitSK
    GromitSK

    The trouble is lots of people are having the same experiences Tec but with different religions. I am certain some followers of Islam, Hinduism, Judaism etc would say exactly the same things you do. Such seeming direct revelations are not peculiar to Christianity.

  • tec
    tec

    The trouble is lots of people are having the same experiences Tec but with different religions. I am certain some followers of Islam, Hinduism, Judaism etc would say exactly the same things you do. Such seeming direct revelations are not peculiar to Christianity.

    I'm not sure that is necessarily trouble.

    (and I am not a member of 'christianity', per se... and/so I would never state that direct revelation or even hearing from the Spirit is limited to such; as well, just as an atheist would attribute such an experience to his own conscience, his own inner voice, etc, so might others attribute to something heard in spirit to something they have been taught; or they might hear only as they can bear - as people do hear only as they can bear, and that is why the voice might sound like their own at first; or various other reasons also... as well as having some experience, but not full knowledge, and so making something heard to fit with one's religion. But I am not just speaking in a "religious" sense... but simple help and answers to questions, etc... like when I have asked what I should do in a particular situation.)

    For instance, I don't have any reason to doubt that Mohommad heard, or even that he was a prophet for the line of Ishmael...Islam worships the same God, the God of Abraham, and God never abandoned Ishmael... that is even written in the bible, God was with the boy as he grew in the desert. Of course, same as any other religion, what is written is open to scribal error, wrong interpretation, etc. Some things are brought in and added, some things are lost, etc... by men.

    There is also more than one spirit out there... else why would John have told people to test the spirits?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty

    A world without Tammy's secret, whispering god would look precisely like a world with no god.

    What's the point of an impotent god?

  • Django_Unchained
    Django_Unchained

    well if he's impotent, at least he wouldn't pork ya

  • Django_Unchained
    Django_Unchained

    @ tec

    do you follow any holy texts?

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