After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy 268 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec
    tec
    Not only must words be written down, they also must be protected. How do you believe that protection is attained?

    I don't. Not to the point of inerrancy, at least.

    There is nothing in the 66 book cannon that condones any evil the RCC committed, they went far beyond what was written. They were abandoning their own principles, as spelled out by scripture, by committing the evil deeds in the first place. That's strong evidence that their cannon IS scripture because when you follow it correctly, your life improves and when you follow it incorrectly, you fall into sin. I am compelled to agree with Steven Fry and wish the best for the Catholic Church rather than judge it's people as a whole. Reformation of the RCC can bring forth a powerful force of good in the world and they are making those changes. The Watchtower, on the other hand, would rather turn up the heat on their young than reform, it's very painful to watch. The RCC fruit is NOT as the Watchtower, there's no good way to be a Jehovah's Witness. The NWT and it's vast array of confusing commentaries is NOT on the same level as the RCC Cannon. It's a shameful fraud and a side by side comparison shows this as clear as day. When the Jehovah's Witnesses start opening hospitals and orphanages we can start to think about drawing a comparison. The Watchtower are Catholic wannabes.

    My point was that the fruits of any particular group of people is not the best way of determining who has the best canon or rather translation (since the WTS has the same canon as the protestants).

    Yes, the "scholars" who just so happened to vehemently disagree with each other to the point of execution and exile. Yet, even through all of that horror, they managed to agree to put a lower case w for Hebrews 4:12 and an upper for John 1:1. That is corroboration of evidence which is scientific. Do you deny the scientific process of truth?

    I don't think that (corroboration on one matter, even in disagreement on other matters) is scientific evidence of truth.

    What is wrong with simply looking at or asking Christ... for Truth?

    The question really is does the book work? What is the book's purpose?

    To bear witness (testify) about Christ.

    This is what I told you while I ws still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Pslams. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgivenes of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginining at jerusalem."

    The answer is in Hebrews 4:12, it's designing to cut to the bones and judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

    Now this is what my Lord has been telling me since you first said that it is scripture that does this over the WORD (Christ - and I have not been listening and heeding. So here is what He has been reminding me of:

    "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too."

    That is Christ. That is what my Lord remind me of, to share with you.

    Compare to Hebrews 4:12

    For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword,piercing to the division of soul and spirit, joints and marrow; and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

    Peace to you,

    tammy (I'll get back to you on the light)

  • latinthunder
    latinthunder
    My point was that the fruits of any particular group of people is not the best way of determining who has the best canon or rather translation (since the WTS has the same canon as the protestants).

    I am not talking about who has the best scripture, I am talking about true scripture vs false and the means of distinguishing between them. When a group of people get together to translate a Bible, they are doing so in order to follow it as a law. All one needs to do is observe whether or not the fruits of the Spirit are manifesting in the community following that law to determine whether or not the law is good or bad. In the case of the RCC it was bad people, good law, and the in the case of the Watchtower it's bad law, good people.

    What is wrong with simply looking at or asking Christ... for Truth?

    I have never implied there is anything wrong with asking the Word for truth.

    That is Christ. That is what my Lord remind me of, to share with you. Compare to Hebrews 4:12

    The Book of Matthew states that Christ did not come to bring peace, but a sword. If he IS a sword, then how could he also BRING a sword? Ephesians says that the sword of the Spirit is the word of God. This is talking about SCRIPTURE, you know, what you hold in your HAND, like you would a SWORD. He brought the sword and now we arm ourselves with it. You are wrongfully conflating the Sword of the Spirit and the Word of God (capital W).

  • cofty
    cofty

    So Tammy and Latinthunder - exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

  • latinthunder
    latinthunder
    Latinthunder - exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    0

  • tec
    tec
    So Tammy and Latinthunder - exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    Ha ha.

    ; )

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec
    The Trinity is a concept that can only be discovered through very vigorous study. In the past the resources needed to accomplish the study were well beyond the common man. With the advent of the internet, that has changed. I would suggest doing more research and with an open mind.

    And yet, Christ said, one only needs to know Him, to know His Father.

    That no one has seen the Father except the Son... and who the Son CHOOSES to REVEAL Him to.

    Not a lot of vigorous study involved in that.

    Now, I understand the trinity doctrine... I just don't have any reason to accept it.

    I understand that it is man's attempt to define God... but really, why should we not just look at Christ for that, as He said to do? Much simpler, and anyone can do it. It is not reserved for those 'beyond the common man', and it did not need to wait for the internet to be invented.

    However, once again... I don't have a need to argue it. If you are looking at and listening to Christ for truth... and I am doing the same... then 'he who is not against you is for you.'

    You are saying that in Genesis 1:1 there was no light even though the heavens and the earth were both CREATED. Heavens have stars and stars are LIGHT, what you say is not making sense to me. Christ was sent by the Father into a world of darkness, that's what he said he was he "light of the world."

    The stars were not created until later though. Same with the sky.

    Heaven, itself, is not physical but spiritual. The heavens - spiritual realm; the earth - physical realm.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    I am not talking about who has the best scripture, I am talking about true scripture vs false and the means of distinguishing between them. When a group of people get together to translate a Bible, they are doing so in order to follow it as a law. All one needs to do is observe whether or not the fruits of the Spirit are manifesting in the community following that law to determine whether or not the law is good or bad. In the case of the RCC it was bad people, good law, and the in the case of the Watchtower it's bad law, good people.

    One could argue, latinthunder... that they (the RCC, or any other group who has commited acts that are against the Truth and His teachings) were not following CHRIST. They didn't even know Him, though they did have the sciptures all along.

    There is one law: that law is love. There is one who we are to follow: that is Christ.

    I have never implied there is anything wrong with asking the Word for truth.

    Good then.

    The Book of Matthew states that Christ did not come to bring peace, but a sword. If he IS a sword, then how could he also BRING a sword? Ephesians says that the sword of the Spirit is the word of God. This is talking about SCRIPTURE, you know, what you hold in your HAND, like you would a SWORD. He brought the sword and now we arm ourselves with it. You are wrongfully conflating the Sword of the Spirit and the Word of God (capital W).

    Latinthunder, the Jews ALWAYS had the scriptures. If the 'sword' was the bible, then how was Christ bringing it; when it (or at least scripture) was already present? The sword is the truth that comes from His mouth. The truth divides... light from dark; truth from lie. The truth pierces. The truth reveals the hearts of men. The sword comes out of the mouth of the Word of God (Christ) in Revelation, correct? Do you think that Christ comes to strike down the nations with the bible? Or simply with truth? Truth that He speaks? Now, there IS truth in what is written... because some wrote down what He spoke (though this is subject to possible errors of the scribes, even if only in translation)... but the living Word of God is Christ. But between looking at the bible, over looking at Christ, to know the Truth and to know God... well, the choice should be obvious: Christ is the Word and Truth of God. Many people have gotten the wrong idea or image of God by looking at the bible (various parts in it)... when it is actually CHRIST who shows us God. Peace, tammy

  • latinthunder
    latinthunder
    And yet, Christ said, one only needs to know Him, to know His Father. That no one has seen the Father except the Son... and who the Son CHOOSES to REVEAL Him to. That no one has seen the Father except the Son... and who the Son CHOOSES to REVEAL Him to.

    The Son reveals the Father through the Spirit.

    Not a lot of vigorous study involved in that.

    So you don't vigorously study? The books of Luke and Acts where addressed to a man named Theophilus . Why would Luke compile such a complex document for this man? The beginning of Luke gives the answer:

    Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

    In order for Theophilus to be certain of what had taken place he needed the tireless efforts of Luke and his sources. He also would need to carefully study what Luke had compiled. This would require an education. In Acts 17 the Jews in Thessalonica were considered noble because they were "examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."

    Now, I understand the trinity doctrine... I just don't have any reason to accept it.

    From what I've seen you do not have a grasp on the subject.

    I understand that it is man's attempt to define God... but really, why should we not just look at Christ for that, as He said to do?

    Studying the written word IS looking at the Word.

    The stars were not created until later though. Same with the sky. Heaven, itself, is not physical but spiritual. The heavens - spiritual realm; the earth - physical realm.

    Genesis 1 is describing this:

    One could argue, latinthunder... that they (the RCC, or any other group who has commited acts that are against the Truth and His teachings) were not following CHRIST. They didn't even know Him, though they did have the sciptures all along.

    There have been many faithful catholics over the ages that have stayed true to their original values. One's that strongly opposed the evil that that was being done in the name of the church. Those people serve as a testament to the authenticity of catholic scripture and are largely lost in time. The evil doers turned against what the Word gave them and to their own undoing. The lesson learned is that we write things down and have educators for a reason.

    There is one law: that law is love.

    Suppose you're a judge for a county court and you are faced with choosing which parent will recieve total custody of their children after a divorce. Both parents are equally abusive in different ways. How do you determine what is the most loving thing to do with the kids? Now lets say the foster care system available is totally corrupt. Do you give the kids to abusive parent #1, abusive parent #2, or the corrupt foster care system? What is the loving thing to do? How does the "law of love" apply in situations such as this?

    Latinthunder, the Jews ALWAYS had the scriptures. If the 'sword' was the bible, then how was Christ bringing it; when it (or at least scripture) was already present? The sword is the truth that comes from His mouth. The truth divides... light from dark; truth from lie. The truth pierces. The truth reveals the hearts of men.

    The same exact thing happened to the Jews as did the catholics. They were not adhering to their law, they were deviating and engaging in man worship. They wanted to kill Christ because he was eating grains on the sabbath. They had no compassion, no forgiveness and no mercy which is all throughout their scripture. If they would have followed their law and acted as their faithful ancestors did they would have no need for a messiah in the first place. But the seed of the serpent would make sure that things corrupted into oblivion. Ancient Judaism was infiltrated.

    The sword comes out of the mouth of the Word of God (Christ) in Revelation, correct? Do you think that Christ comes to strike down the nations with the bible? Or simply with truth? Truth that He speaks?

    Yes, but not just the RCC 66 cannon, but ALL scripture which includes the sciences, art, music and philosophy. He comes with a pen, which acts as the ultimate sword. A pen can draft a constution and a bill of rights. A sword brings nothing but destruction and enslavement.

    Many people have gotten the wrong idea or image of God by looking at the bible (various parts in it)... when it is actually CHRIST who shows us God.

    That's not the fault of scripture, nor that of it's writers. People get the wrong idea because a false interpretation is being forced upon them.

  • tec
    tec

    The Son reveals the Father through the Spirit.

    And yet... again... His words are: If you have seen ME, you have seen the FATHER.

    So you don't vigorously study?

    No. I don't. (I did... the wts has and does (or at least once did)... and what has that gotten them? There are plenty of scholars out there, studying vigorously... and yet they have different conclusions about things... and theories get built off those conclusions, and so on and so on.)

    I listen to Christ.

    As to the rest, I think I will just leave things as they are for now, as I am not sure how much of it relates to what I was saying, or what we were discussing.

    Peace,

    tammy

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