Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

by AndersonsInfo 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I've read and re-read every post on this thread with academic detachment. It is understand how many people understand what I am purposefully doing. Wrongs are not righted by wrongs. It is a preschool lesson. So how can people who were messed up by the same group understand what I am doing and why I am doing it now rather than one year ago. Yet others just go on believing I am stupider than the most stupid creature or plant in the entire universe and in dark matter. I have no idea. Nor will I waste more time analyzing why it may be so. Let me state for the official record. I expected no one to understand why Barb and why now. I admire her. Some people do understand. It shocked me.

    Why should I be so shocked that some people here know the lessons I constantly teach b/c the stakes are so high for me? You have the best leaders in the world already here. B/c I've been here a while. To not indulge in Barbara worship is sheer heresy at this site! If I were to chooose a leader based on my vast experience, the last two people I would ever pick are Barbara and Cedars. I respect them both. Indeed, in what they excel no one may be better in the world. Yet when it comes to leadership and basic responsibility, they consistently fail. Well, Cedars is trying and may soon be a true leader.

    You only have a few chances at the WT for any lasting impact. Dateline was one such extremely rare and pricelss moment. How a JW could summon up the courage and talk to Dateline reporters is extraordinary! No matter what happens I have the deepest admiration for anyone who could do it. Of course, I also know it doesn't take reporters about five minutes to make a point they need to make for a segment. Time and time again, someone is found at the very last second. Well, when the WT is riveted as they must be because of FB, what I am doing now, and Dateline appearances, I will never tolerate any lack of knowledge or bad performance. I never want to see the Dateline interview. God has kept me off it despite my strongest addiction and curiosity. Why should I be terrified of watching Dateline? Because of years of marketing, advertising, etc. experience. Yes, if you win a landmark case you are set for life both in practice, academia, and way better than Dateline episodes. Lose in a big way and you are over. Too much is at stake.

    There is no underestimating how much I admire Tom Daschle. He is presently on a time out. Daschle did something so stupid, clumsy, borderline criminal, etc. when the stakes were at a historic high that he is now in the doghouse. Of course, he is now making up for all the time he never earned the money he should have. Still, Tom turned down hundreds of millions to be the Senator from South Dakota. No one would have ever heard of him outside So. Dakota had he not accidently stumbled upon a fellow Senator on his way to a family emergency. No one from South Dakota with no connections beat out John Kerry with every connection. Daschle had to endure and is enduring what I am doing now. He had never ever appear in public for a while. When Obama messed up the first debate in this last cycle, you better believe even tho he was president no tongue was not screaming at him. They put him through torture. He no longer debated with easy nice people. No, they pulled in someone known to break people. Obama will always hate that Senator. Well, better one Senator than an entire nation of decent people. Daschle will be back despite the hundreds of millions.

    I know better stories but these are the only very public ones. The details were in every newspaper. Media people adore these stories.

    So the WT may be laughing now because of what I am doing, the FB fiasco. Unless they are the craziest people in the world, we have much more power b/c one of us was willing to publicly say something about Cedars or Barbara without hating Cedars or Barbara. We are not the same people as a few months ago. Some catastrophes make you stronger. This needed to be aired in the way I did it. Don't blindly follow leaders. My Lord, anyone with the most basic knowledge of how the world works know never worship evil to combat a lesser evil. Stalin and Hitler never took power and said "Bam. Slam." No, people can fight that. Dictators do it by exposing bad things and making universal issues over nothing. The constant barrage of low-level dehumanization is far worse than facing a concentration camp. I know from reading and personal experience I will never reveal. Enough is enough. Perhaps Barbara will take out the WT one day b/c I did this. She has far more dedication and personal talent than I do. A little flaw just needs to be adjusted if she is willing.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

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    Band on the Run,

    I’m sure you took time to write what you did for some purpose. Unfortunately, though I read what you wrote, I don’t understand whatever is your message.

    In succinct fashion can you tell me what it is you’re trying to communicate?

    And, what do you mean by the following statement:

    “…the WT may be laughing now because of what I am doing, the FB fiasco.”

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Simon
    Simon

    I have no complaints with the article itself - I don't think any but people within closed and controlled communities ever argue for shunning. It's kind of a no-brainer and recognised by all.

    I am a little disgusted though that the author is using someone's death to push an agenda and get publicity. It's also more than a little disingenuous to write about the harm and danger that shunning can cause (to the point of suicide) when his own organization has been so careless and cavalier with people's identities that it has put people at risk of being shunned and still does not have clear policies for protection.

    Sadly, I think the name changed but they are still intent on being "Anti-Activists" ... and I don't think that fits with trying to be a support organisation as the goals are very different. While one would try and protect and prevent victims, the other would seek to publicise them as much as possible and for the truly militant would be happy to create martyrs for the cause.

  • Hummingbird001
    Hummingbird001

    Simon:

    I am a little disgusted though that the author is using someone's death to push an agenda and get publicity. It's also more than a little disingenuous to write about the harm and danger that shunning can cause (to the point of suicide) when his own organization has been so careless and cavalier with people's identities that it has put people at risk of being shunned and still does not have clear policies for protection.

  • Simon
    Simon

    A condensed version of the article:

    • The watchtower shuns people. No real details on how or why. Other religions do it too.
    • Some people who are shunned commit suicide. We suspect a link but can't prove it. No link to details even of the person we're using.
    • I've setup an organization. Here's a link to my organizations website.
    • Some Jewish shunning has been confronted in some countries. No details.
    • Here's my name, my title and my organization again. We like publicity.

    Trying to 'legally' stop shunning would be extremely difficult if not completely impossible and just seems to be a waste of time.

    Drawing attention to something makes sense as a way to force an organization to change based on bad press but putting the onus on authorities to outlaw it? C'mon, get real - it's simply never going to happen.

    An organization cannot shun you. It can refuse you service and you can complain that you are being discriminated against. Heck, try and rent your local hall for a community event and then complain that they are not providing charitable services.

    The only people who can shun you and hurt you by doing it are friends and family. Is the government going to force your mummy to talk to you? How about families that fall out for other reasons? See the problem?

    It's completely dellusional to imagine that any lawmaker would give this the slightest time of day. It's simply not 'doable' - it could not be codified into law or enforced in any way.

    If your friends are shunning you then newsflash: they are not your friends !

    If your family is shunning you then it's sad, but they are only people you happen to share more DNA with.

    Shunning only has power if you give it power and the responsibility for hurt needs to be assigned to the people doing it.

    Don't allow people to claim that the organisation is doing it, don't you blame the WTS for it either. Tell them that THEY are the ones doing it. Make them feel responsible and guilty for it.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

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    Simon,

    I don’t see any reason to characterize the author as being a user. Are we supposed to stay mum about suicides? Are you kidding me? Why not just say “I don’t like the author” and be done with it?

    There are relevant differences between the author’s organization and the beast it speaks about (i.e., Watchtower) so that it’s not disingenuous for the former to speak of the latter, despite the former having his own history of mistaken management and judgment.

    On what basis do you say the author’s organization still does not have clear policies for protection? How would you know this to assert it in certain terms?

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

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    “Trying to 'legally' stop shunning would be extremely difficult if not completely impossible and just seems to be a waste of time.”

    Simon.

    I think what future legislators and judicial systems do or don’t do about this depends on what is criminalized by statute. Religions have done many things under banners of theology. Many of these theological practices are today made illegal by statute.

    A thing called “hate speech” is getting traction in contemporary western society as something that should be disallowed by statute. I can see a day when Watchtower has a policy of removing members from its roles but without being able to demonize them and have them treated as some sort walking undead folks.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Hummingbird001
    Hummingbird001

    Not impressed with Richard Kelly's ethics as a "writer".

    It would have been very easy for him to interview some friends and/or family of Eric's. And then write an article that would have at least been honest, and had just as much impact, even if he had been asked to use a pseudonym.

    Instead, he took the lazy route, clicked on a couple of threads from JWN, jumped to a conclusion and quote-mined what suited himself and his group's agenda, and dashed off to the printer.

    Not very professional.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin
    Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

    The word "extreme" sticks out like a sore thumb, and has a certain naivete-ish about it, but that might be because of my own predjudice I don't know.

    It is a loaded question because it assumes too much.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

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    “The word "extreme" sticks out like a sore thumb…”

    Why?

    Do you think Watchtower’s brand of organized communal shunning is not extreme?

    Marvin Shilmer

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