Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society (page 12)

Marvin Shilmer

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Simon,

I consider you a good man, and a friend. I’ve always supported this forum, and you. When AAWA volunteers were telling me you viewed them as a competitor I disputed the notion with them because I think and act for myself.

Now it seems it’s not enough for me to think and act for myself. When I share something you think is supportive of something AAWA you brand me as a puppet for the AAWA cause. That sort of response is disrespectful, not to mention complete nonsense!

Understand this: I am my own man. Hopefully you are too. What I say I am willing to answer for and do answer for, nearly religiously so! I am no one’s puppet. Not yours. Not AAWA’s. I own what I say. Not you. Not AAWA.

It’s shameful that you speak of me as you do given my longtime willingness to always answer publicly for whatever I say publicly. Whether I hold a view that’s contrary to or supportive of some particular issue related to AAWA matters not. If I say something I’m willing to answer for it because I own what I say.

If you want to know why I chimed in on this discussion when I did then READ what I’ve WRITTEN and STOP trying to read MY MIND.

If you want to discuss substance let me know. THEN I’ll happily respond to what you’ve written above. I have no reason to respond if you find yourself unable to be respectful. You harp about one man acting contrary to what he says yet you are willing to be disrespectful though asking participants to be respectful.

Physician, heal thyself!

________________

“Did Dick Kelley know Eric in real life?”

zed,

I have no idea if he does or does not, I have not communicated with Richard Kelly in I don’t know when and this was never part of any discussion as though my business to ask.

Marvin Shilmer

JW GoneBad

No, no JWGoneBad does not speak to the dead. This scenario is fast-forwarded into the distant future....after the resurrection! Pay attention!

zed is dead

Marvin,

Simon's assessment of you is proven by perponderance of evidence, based on your "body of work."

zed

Marvin Shilmer

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“Sure, 'hate speech' is a thing. Shunning is the absence of a thing. There is a huge difference.

“What next, can the courts force people to be friends and force families to kiss and make-up?”

Simon,

Do you recall what happened with family relationships when Watchtower stopped imposing its shunning policy on unbaptized publishers who’d unrepentantly committed some sin? Families resumed normal dealings and many found relief as a result.

My comments about hate speech are nothing more than a remark that legislators may one day see the tangible effect on its citizenry of religious dogma that results in people despising other people to their physical detriment over nothing more than an intangible religious tenet.

The Roman Catholic Church to this day practices excommunication of multiple varieties. Only today it does so without burning people at the stake. Why? Because governments finally figured out that killing the citizenry is bad for business.

Contemporary society is gaining more and more knowledge of emotional bullying and it’s physical effect on the citizenry. Unlike some others, I can see a day when legislative bodies find a way to write law against this effect. Shunning of the sort Watchtower imposes kills people. It’s that simple.

Marvin Shilmer

Simon

Don't get me wrong - when I am finally elected world-ruler my first task will be to commission a giant space ship that all the religious people and cold-callers can be put on and be sent off into space to find their god.

The rest of us can then reside in peace. I know cold callers may not in fact be religious but they would ruin the tranquility if they remained.

The trouble is, it's never going to happen. No government in the forseeable future will ever outlaw religion, certainly not in Jesus-land-central of the USA. Religion is one of those things that has to gradually fade from relevence and eventually die out on it's own. Like the GOP.

As fewer people follow it, the power it wields fades rapidly. The bast way to fight it is to ignore it (and point and laugh at it occassionally).

144001

<<<<I am a little disgusted though that the author is using someone's death to push an agenda and get publicity.>>>>

I agree with Simon 100% here. Eric's suffering ended with his suicide. He should be allowed to rest in peace without someone trying to exploit his death for any purpose. The article is in poor taste.

Chaserious

Marvin,

Aren't shunning and "hate speech" separate issues, even if there might be some overlap? Many, if not most of those shunned at the direction of the WTS are thrown out for sexual matters and alcohol and drug issues. However, the statements that I have seen characterized by some as hate speech are directed at "apostates," which as defined by the WTS does not include those shunned for moral vices. Shunning, by its very definition, contains no speech at all.

Marvin Shilmer

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“Aren't shunning and "hate speech" separate issues, even if there might be some overlap?”

Chaserious,

If there is a component of hate speech to be found in the larger subject of shunning and removal of that component protects citizenry of sovereign states then there is hope Western societies might just have a say in this thing to a better end. Historically that’s how larger society works. It’s not fast. There are always unintended consequences that have to be resolved when they occur. But eventually it happens. It’s just a matter of time, and how much blood, sweat and tears go into the effort.

Conduct that leads to hate is hate speech. Maybe I’m wrong, but the sort of language Watchtower uses to brand ex-JWs is loaded with hate, and this loaded language leads Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat ex-JWs with hatred. They say it’s not hatred. But actions and published statements by Watchtower read otherwise.

Marvin Shilmer

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“No government in the forseeable future will ever outlaw religion.”

I don’t know anyone proposing that religion would or could be outlawed, though that outcome would delight me. On the other hand, religions can and have been rendered less harmful by outlawing certain behaviors, like hate speech.

If there’s a way to demonstrate a tangible threat to citizenry of a sovereign state the result of a Watchtower policy then that policy is vulnerable to that extent.

Marvin Shilmer

144001

Marvin:

Is there a form of shunning that is not "extreme?"

Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

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