WOW, more questionable assumptions?
Prime said-
A person's opinion on this issue is largely based on what they believe to be the truth.
Sure, that's obvious.
Except the difference is, JWs are not willing to approach the shunning discussion with an open mind in order to evaluate available outside evidence, whether it's examples offered by others (eg gma2tired's first-hand testimony of the HARM and DAMAGE the practice causes to his family member!), the overwhelming evidence offered by psychologists, or even the admission of the harm that it causes by the Society themselves, even DEPICTED in the WT! You're trying to deny that it's harmful, which even the Society ADMITS!
Mental-health professionals are TELLING YOU that YOU, PRIME, are primarily harming YOURSELF (and YOUR family members) by allowing yourself to be manipulated by others and participating in this DEHUMANIZING practice. It doesn't MATTER if you realize it or not: you ARE being controlled, and you can tell yourself that you are a willing participant, but that only ups YOUR personal responsibility for any harm that YOU cause.
Ask yourself: would a loving God force you to commit emotional suicide and destroy familial relationships, in order to enforce congregational discipline? That's just NUTS, and you KNOW it, deep down. There's GOT to be a tattered shred of human decency still gasping for air in your heart, begging you to stop torturing it by being a mindless follower of a practice you KNOW if fundamentally wrong.
Just because a person rejects what Jehovah's Witnesses present as the truth doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Sure, just as long as you're willing to admit that if a person ACCEPTS what Jehovah's WItnesses present as truth is equally meaningless, as well, unless one is going with an "appeal to popularity" argument (which is risky, since the crowd is OFTEN wrong, eg Justin Bieber sells many records, but that doesn't mean he's producing great music).
As for theisim, they do present a consistent Bible-based worldview that makes practical sense.
The Bible should not be mentioned in the same sentence with the adjective "consistent", since the Bible is LOADED with inconsistencies; it's off-topic to THIS thread, but if you're arguing otherwise, start a new thread on the topic, and watch the claim get shredded to pieces within minutes (like a cow getting eaten alive by piranhas in the Amazon).
And to say it makes "practical sense" is a value judgment (ends-based argument, arguing on the basis of benefits it provides; potentially true, FWIW), which requires making a moral determination. Does your claim stem from exercising your own "horribly-flawed" moral compass to reach that conclusion, or does it stem from the BIble telling you of the value obtained from accepting it's claim to making "practical sense"?
Does the "practical sense" include throwing one's own family members under the bus, betraying not only their trust, but sacrificing your own loyalty to the group in the name of blind conformity?
When it comes to this issue, people talk as if the world is an oasis of "empathy" and family unity and Jehovah's Witnesses came along and dried everything up. Nothing is further from the truth.
What you're doing is creating a "straw-man", misrepresenting the other side's position in order to make it easier to attack. The WT is MASTERFUL at straw-manning.
So let me point out that I've never CLAIMED the World is an "oasis" of anything: with 7 BILLION people on the Planet, there's plenty of BAD self-centered people out there who'd just as soon kill you as look you in the eye. HOWEVER, there's FAR MORE genuine people who AREN'T out to abuse others, abuse their own families, and that's where JWs diverge from me: I don't throw "the baby out with the bathwater" when it comes to humanity, prejudging on their basis of what they CLAIM to believe.
On the other hand, JWs DO claim the Society to be a "spiritual oasis", filled with loving and kind people who are worthy of each other's trust, even as if they're one's 'brothers and sisters' (we had a charismatic scammer who ripped off many members in the cong, since he abused their sense of trust to commit investment fraud). It's a false assumption, and it sets members up for becoming victims of their own blind trust (which the many pedophile cases have also demonstrated).
From sectarian violence to conflicts in many person's extended and immediate families, the human race is one very large dysfunctional family.
Are you referring to the sectarian RELIGIOUS war taking place in Syria, which has claimed 100,000 lives so far? Are you defending one set of fantasies by pointing out the problems that result from similar fantasy thinking?
Many persons in modern society are not empathetic or at all trustworthy.
We've already pointed out the hypocrisy of your pointing to the evil practices of the World to claim, "but they're doing it, too!"
You're trying to play both sides of the argument, and you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. You claim to be better than the World by offering a spiritual oasis, then point out the similarly in behavior to the World as if it's a defense? WOW!
The fact is, "MANY people in modern society" HAVE recognized the inherent foolishness and ineffectiveness of shunning others and called for its abandonment, and HAVE long-spoken out against it.
Psychologists have pointed out how such measures only serve as PROOF of a the JWs adopting a Luddite psychology that's shared with the Amish/Mennonites, other 'high-control' groups that similarly feel threatened by a modern World and attempt to INCREASE a sense of control while confronting that they've LOST control; shunning only serves as PROOF-POSITIVE of the group's last-ditch attempt to control their members, using such anachronistic methods.
In the end, we ALL stand on our own two feet, have to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for OUR actions as individuals, whether the 'God' looking back at you in the mirror is you, or the 'God' many have externalized and created in their own image, and agreed to share (although a select few get to control the image of God). The buck stops with you, either way.
This has much to do with why the disfellowshipping arrangement exists in the first place. It's been my experience that the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are dependable and trustworthy. If you say otherwise, anyone with any common sense at all will question the claims of turncoats (e.g. "the board of bitterness").
I, for one, have NEVER claimed that all witnesses are evil people: in fact, that's the POINT of Milgram's study. Kind and ethical people can be manipulated to perform unethical acts, under the "wrong" circumstances. THAT's the point.
You must be reading a different thread than I read, as the thread you cited shows there's MANY DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS participating here, and as much as you'd like to say it confirms the stereotype the WT offers of "bitter apostates", it actually DISPROVES the old cliche'.
It's advisable to get to know others in person before accepting the claims of bitter, anonymous cyberghosts.
Noted that you avoided the phrase, "bitter apostates". That's a start, I suppose....
And yes, your claim above would explain why JWs leave their literature in laundromats, looking for 'interested ones'?
Since CLEARLY the truth of a statement hinges on the appearance of the person who presents it, and whether their personal appearance (eg their smile, breath, hair being neat, trimmed, etc) matters when considering the TRUTHFULNESS of what they say.
See, that's the problem: you're acting like everyone here HASN'T been a member of JWs, HASN'T worn a suit, etc and doesn't having first-hand experience with JWs, even having served as elders, CO, etc. This forum is FILLED with those who once WERE in your nicely-polished shoes, and even possibly had more insight into the real "JWs" having served in the organization at a higher level than you.
While it's true that YMMV, it's important not to forget that while one's moral responsibilty CAN be diffused by being a member of a group, responsibility doesn't become so diluted as to completely DISAPPEAR. Like I said earlier, the only one who ultimately experiences harm by allowing themselves to be controlled is the person themselves; hence why it's imperative for all JWs to recognize that in the end, it's THEIR lives and relationships that are harmed, and only THEY are in the position to "save themselves".
See, the World will continue to spin on it's axis tomorrow, with or without us, or what set of delusional beliefs any of us hold.
Adam
...OUTLAW